FireForged
New member
I second that
Criminal used store owner's gun against him
- Thread starter adamBomb
- Start date
I second that
stephen426
New member
Self-Defense in terms of hand-to-hand can be useful in a true self-defense situation, but getting into physical altercation with an unknown person who is younger and who appears physically fit, is a pretty bad idea. basically, if you are fighting for your life, having a few techniques may mean the difference between life and death. Don't let it give you a false sense of security, where it ends up getting you in trouble.
Palidin TX
Inactive
A lanyard makes it very difficult to run off with the gun but if you close on the subject like he did and get yourself flattened he's still going to be able to shoot you with it.
If you have a gun and get into a fight it's a gun fight. You will either be fighting with your gun or for it.
The guy should have simply retreated and called the cops.
If you have a gun and get into a fight it's a gun fight. You will either be fighting with your gun or for it.
The guy should have simply retreated and called the cops.
Since this occurred multiple times, I thought I would point out "would of" is not a contraction of "would have" (would've) which is what I'm pretty sure the OP meant. After all, "would of" is ultimately a dependent clause reliant on a third party whereas "would have" has to do with the action of the speaker.
It seems to me that the failure here was that of the owner to use his weapon decisively. If you draw your weapon, do so with the intent to immediately engage your target. If the threat from the target isn't moral, then don't draw. If the threat is mortal, then draw and immediately start shooting the threat(s). This isn't TV. There's no time for a lengthy philosophical discussion. If you are NOT in mortal danger, don't shoot. If you are in moral danger, shoot so as to eliminate the threat. Train for this. There is no in-between. The "in-between" occurs during the time you decide whether or not they are a mortal threat. But once someone is pointing a gun at you, that time for deliberation is over.
Maybe the discussion needs to shift?
Looks like there are two threads interwoven here. One has focused on the specifics of this case (valid, as it is based on a reported news story) and is rightly pointing out that the store dude should never have engaged someone and escalated a situation, especially one he clearly was not equipped to handle.
The other, more general question that the OP seems to seek an answer to, is perhaps more like: what techniques, or training, could prevent your own gun from being knocked loose in an altercation, if you are in close proximity to an attacker and cannot retreat.
Not trying to put words into anyone's mouth, but that seems to be what's being asked. "OK, given that this guy got himself into this situation, from that point onward, what could have prevented the retention issue, etc.?"
I have a kydex IWB holster. I've experimented (yes, unloaded
And "Barrel Blok is a great tool for this!) with tossing my holstered gun onto the floor, or turning it upside down and whacking it. I was able to see how tight my retention screw needed to be to prevent the gun from falling out. It just meant that on the draw, I needed a decent yank to make it come free.
I had a N82 Tactical holster for a while, that had a retention mechanism requiring the gun to be twisted while drawing. I never did quite get the hang of it after many, many practice draws.
Could a safety have prevented the bad guy from firing the gun? I can't imagine there's much behind this. Who knows, but if the gun won't shoot, it's not much of a stretch to think "Hey, I'm a bad guy, and I should probably flip off this little lever right here..."
Otherwise, what training can help? I really don't know, beyond training in grappling or some form of close-quarters combat. I wonder about it often. I've not had that training. I'm in pretty good shape, but at only 40 my genetics have chosen to give me two bad knees and a bad lower back (it's a family tradition!).I'm not likely to outrun anyone, and attempting to grapple could very well just lock up my back.
I try to make a daily habit of constant situational awareness. Hey, this kind lady with a baby stroller behind me in line could be an ISIS terrorist ninja on crack. What if someone in line were to grab for my wallet? I just try to be on the lookout and practice constant vigilance. I don't want to be the one caught off guard.
I specifically DON'T return a middle finger in traffic, though I'd like to. I once saw a guy on a motorcycle flip off a guy in a pickup truck, who then took off chasing the guy on the motorcycle through a red light. No clue what may have happened there. But the wrong finger to the wrong person at the right time could lead someone into a situation where they find themselves facing a deadly threat that they created.
Same goes for punching someone in your store, I guess.
Anyways -- does anyone have specific training they've attended that was helpful in guarding yourself, or your weapon, in close quarters?
Looks like there are two threads interwoven here. One has focused on the specifics of this case (valid, as it is based on a reported news story) and is rightly pointing out that the store dude should never have engaged someone and escalated a situation, especially one he clearly was not equipped to handle.
The other, more general question that the OP seems to seek an answer to, is perhaps more like: what techniques, or training, could prevent your own gun from being knocked loose in an altercation, if you are in close proximity to an attacker and cannot retreat.
Not trying to put words into anyone's mouth, but that seems to be what's being asked. "OK, given that this guy got himself into this situation, from that point onward, what could have prevented the retention issue, etc.?"
I have a kydex IWB holster. I've experimented (yes, unloaded
And "Barrel Blok is a great tool for this!) with tossing my holstered gun onto the floor, or turning it upside down and whacking it. I was able to see how tight my retention screw needed to be to prevent the gun from falling out. It just meant that on the draw, I needed a decent yank to make it come free. I had a N82 Tactical holster for a while, that had a retention mechanism requiring the gun to be twisted while drawing. I never did quite get the hang of it after many, many practice draws.
Could a safety have prevented the bad guy from firing the gun? I can't imagine there's much behind this. Who knows, but if the gun won't shoot, it's not much of a stretch to think "Hey, I'm a bad guy, and I should probably flip off this little lever right here..."
Otherwise, what training can help? I really don't know, beyond training in grappling or some form of close-quarters combat. I wonder about it often. I've not had that training. I'm in pretty good shape, but at only 40 my genetics have chosen to give me two bad knees and a bad lower back (it's a family tradition!).I'm not likely to outrun anyone, and attempting to grapple could very well just lock up my back.
I try to make a daily habit of constant situational awareness. Hey, this kind lady with a baby stroller behind me in line could be an ISIS terrorist ninja on crack. What if someone in line were to grab for my wallet? I just try to be on the lookout and practice constant vigilance. I don't want to be the one caught off guard.
I specifically DON'T return a middle finger in traffic, though I'd like to. I once saw a guy on a motorcycle flip off a guy in a pickup truck, who then took off chasing the guy on the motorcycle through a red light. No clue what may have happened there. But the wrong finger to the wrong person at the right time could lead someone into a situation where they find themselves facing a deadly threat that they created.
Same goes for punching someone in your store, I guess.
Anyways -- does anyone have specific training they've attended that was helpful in guarding yourself, or your weapon, in close quarters?