Criminal Taser use. How to defend?

U

U.F.O.

New member
This tactics forum deals with a lot of strange situations, here's one that IMO will be one to contend with going forward.

You're accosted by BG's who pull a weapon on you. Not a gun, knife, club or anything lethal, but a Taser, capable of shooting some 15 odd feet and totally incapacitating you. What degree of responsive force would you be justified in using?

I think robbers are going to use Tasers as a stun and run product and how to deal with them could be problematic. My guess.....even though the actual event of being shot with a Taser may not be deemed as lethal right now, the fact that the weapon can totally disable you makes you vulnerable to death or bodily harm and justifies you to use the same type responsive tactics as you would when defending against a knife or gun. Just MHO.

U.F.O.
 
The "air cartrige" for the Taser, which has the darts that shoot up to 21 feet with a burst of compressed nitrogen, contains little circles of colored confetti on which are printed a unique serial number for that cartrige, which can be traced back to the original purchaser, and they cost $30 each and can't be re-used.

And stun guns are already in use by criminals:

http://www.lapdonline.org/releases/1999/99_04/noe1.htm

http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.u...fm?objectid=12914065&method=full&siteid=50100

http://www.thisisbexley.co.uk/archive/display.var.605364.0.0.html
 
Interesting. Once again begs the question, "Would one be justified in using lethal force to defend against Taser attack?"

U.F.O.
 
I think finding a few cases where a person, was hospitalized, killed, or maimed, would help to sort it out, because you can tell, and show the police, that you had feared for your life. I am not sure how incapacitating a stun gun is, but if it makes you fall, you always have the chance to hit your head, always a danger when head trauma is involved. If it is the type mvpel mentions, the demos, I have seen, usually employ a large cushion, and 2 people to catch the person. A jolt to the heart of people of any age, can kill them. I wonder if it is labelled a less than lethal weapon, like the weapon that killed that girl at the base ball game.

With all that said, I would shoot if I was armed, and worry about consequences later. A situation of of being basically paralyzed around a BG, is worse, than an encounter with multiple BG's unarmed, to me.
 
I agree Dan, but someone shooting a crook with a Taser most certainly will end up being in an interesting test case one day. A court decision that Taser does not constitute a direct threat to life or limb and therefore deadly force is unjustified would open the door to acceptable forms of violence against the public. Which is quite unacceptable.

U.F.O.
 
How would I know it was a taser, and not a gun?
Kids have been shot for pulling squirt guns on cops before.

I'd say shoot first, ask "is that a taser" later.
With the plethora of ugly, plastic looking guns (like glocks) on the market it would be easy to say you thought it was a gun.
The dead BGs buddies would learn don't bring a taser to a gunfight.
 
If I had a gun with me, I'd treat him just like he had a gun too, for the following reason:

He's got a ranged weapon which will incapacitate me if used, leaving me susceptible to whatever he wants to do. This includes theft, abuse, and the possibility of him stealing my gun and using it on someone.

Unless there's some really good reason to think otherwise, I'd assume a BG with a taser to be life-threatening in that he could take my own arm and shoot me once I've been zapped.
 
The BG with the air taser, seems like being tasered, is enough to possibly kill, or greatly injure you from the fall, if you manage to get an arm out, to break you fall, the likelyhood of a broken arm, the telescoping kind is highly probable,2 of my relatives, under age 50 have fallen, and had such a fracture, it never completely heals, and they most use hardware, and surgery to repair.

The fact that in about 1 min, you could be trussed up, and kidnapped, is a likely scenario, taking people to atm's to get money seems very common. I understand your concerns, but if the BG brought the taser, to lessen a charge if caught, or it is easier to obtain, means the BG is thinking, and keeping a witness healthy, is his biggest problem. It is a dilemma, but I guess the phrase, tried by 12, or carried by 6 applies.
 
I am not sure how incapacitating a stun gun is, but if it makes you fall ...
Click to expand...

I saw a Taser demoed on a couple of new police recruits.

Two successfully attached Taser terminals, anywhere on the body, will put you down in a blink of an eye. It is completely incapacitating, but the effects are instantly gone when the current is switched off. The standard cycle time is five seconds.

I could certainly see deadly force as an option - if a robber is going to incapacitate you, whether by tying you up or zapping you with a Taser, then you would certainly be in reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm, and I think any jury would recognize that.
 
Would lethal force be justified? Of course it would.

Not to mention with these Tasers....how many people a week are dieing from these things lately?
 
Just recently in the news......

Cops shot a suspect with said tazer, and suspect died. Now, I dont know the details, but the mear fact that one used by people trained in its use accidentally killed someone with one would make it a "less lethal" (I use this, because it is still potentially lethal). Knives can be looked at as "less lethal" because one has to cause trauma to actually kill with them......a shot the head with a taser could be looked at the same way......I would shoot without question, and bring up the previously mentioned occurence to back up the validity of my self defence claim. As well as being incapacitated...etc
 
Cowled_Wolfe is right

If you are standing with a gun drawn at someone with a Taser gun pointed at you then you have to treat him as he as a "real gun" too, because if he hits you with that Taser then he has access to your gun and can do anything to you that he wants. "Don't bring a taser to a gun fight" is funny but it is also very true. Anyone that attempts to use a taser gun on me when I am drawn on them they will wish they hadn't
 
What would happen?

My guess...

If a victim shot a perpetrator who was found to be armed with a Taser...

-In MA, the victim would be prosecuted as a murderer.
-In MT, no charges would be filed against the victim.
-In rural TX, the victim would be hailed as a hero.
-In Austin, TX, not so sure.
 
There are case law precedents where police officers have had to shoot unarmed (or 'underarmed') offenders solely because they feared losing control of their sidearm and thus arming the offender.

Keep in mind, also, that a fall from 5'6" onto concrete can decelerate the brain with a force above 300 g's, the threshold of permanent injury or death. FALLING from the tasing can kill you if you're on pavement...that's deadly force.


Larry
 
In my neck of the woods, the officers are trained that lethal force is acceptible if the target is carrying an air taser. The reasoning is that, while it is a less than lethal weapon, it will allow the target to incapacitate the officer, gaining control of that officer's weapon.
 
Thx. everyone for the excellent opinion and commentary. Bottom line.....anyone tries to assault you with a taser a maximum response is warranted.

U.F.O.
 
Taser

There have been cases where people have died following the use of the Taser.

Critical question is that the question of your state of mind - subjective test- is the issue-WERE YOU in fear of your life- it is not an objective test.

Other issues also play a part- how they are dressed- how they behave- do they appear calm-or agitated- time of day- are wife / kids with you with resultant concern for their safety.
 
I treat any less than lethal attempt to control me the same way, whether OC pepper spray, taser, stun gun, or animal tranqualizer darts. Return fire with as many rounds as it takes to stop the attacker. I won't stand still to see what he'll do with a better weapn - my firearm.
 
I would consider anyone with a "tazer" or other stun device intended to render me incapable of normal function and "at their mercy" a threat to my life - and would treat them accordingly.
 
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