Crime and Guns

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BoringAccountant

New member
Ok, let me see if this thread works as well on paper as it did this morning when I thought of it.

Here is a true story regarding life on the streets of Baltimore, MD, near where I work (fortunately far away from my home)...http://wjz.com/local/double.shooting.accident.2.664478.html

This is an example of a pretty minor incident...man cuts off other man in car, said man gets mad and exchanges words with other driver. Those drivers scream back and forth for a few blocks then decide to stop and settle it the 'ol fashioned way, fist-fighting, or so the one driver thought. The driver at fault stopped, the other car pulled along side and shot him and his female passenger to death for a minor traffic altercation, road rage. These victims had nothing prior with the other vehicle, its assumed they did not even know them prior to this, so prior motive and history is not applicable here.

Now, to the questions.

If things like this happen every day in cities all over the country, what is the solution to curb things like this? Whatever happened to the days when you would each get out and beat the piss out of each other and then move on? What has changed in society that pulling a gun and shooting someone is easier to do and seemingly all to common these days?

Some of you no doubt will say, increased gun rights will help. If the one driver had been allowed to carry easier, he may have prevented this. Sure, he may have. But why would a situation like this ever get brought to shots being fired? Others, not so much on this board, would say that guns are the problem. Take the guns away and the driver who produced the handgun would never have had it. And to that I say BS. Interjection here on my part, but I will assume the gun was not legally purchased to begin with.

Where does that leave us? What things can we do to prevent this, try and "cure" these problems?

I for one, do not think either likely solution, more gun rights or more gun control would help in such a scenario.

Basically I am at a loss for how things like this happen these days, not surprised they do, but surprised that things are escalated to shooting so quickly.

There are countless stories like this in the news here every day, man gets shot over fast food, man gets robbed and killed for his iPod, etc.
 
Whatever happened to the days when you would each get out and beat the piss out of each other and then move on? What has changed in society that pulling a gun and shooting someone is easier to do and seemingly all to common these days?
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What days were those?

How many times have you pulled over and had a fistfight by the road side?

We are living in the real world not the playground or a 1940's movie.

Fighting is fighting, if you decide your going to engage someone in combat don't be suprised if they produce a weapon and gain the upper hand.

I don't think anythings changed regarding the rules of street fighting, there are none.

If you don't want to get shot, stabbed or beaten, its best to avoid senseless confrontations with strangers. Try being polite and watch your temper and hand jesters or you might anger the wrong psychopath.
 
Whatever happened to the days when you would each get out and beat the piss out of each other and then move on?
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While that's not as bad as killing people over a traffic argument it's still a really primitive way to handle problems and shouldn't be thought of as a preferable solution. o_O

Interjection here on my part, but I will assume the gun was not legally purchased to begin with.
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I would really, really like to assume the same...:(
Basically I am at a loss for how things like this happen these days, not surprised they do, but surprised that things are escalated to shooting so quickly.
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This country is too comfortable with violence, too desensitized. Too many people see violence as a means to solve problems and they're simply not. Violence - any form of violence, be they fist fights, concealed carry weapons or aerial bombardment - should always be considered a last resort to resolve a problem.

The problem is certainly not the guns, the problem is the culture of violence we allow to perpetuate, that it's acceptable in any form besides self-defense.
 
SELFISHNESS!!!:mad: It is a ME ME ME world as well as what was said above. Folks are under the impression the their time, money, happiness, respect is worth more than anyone else's...
Brent
 
Fps Video Games Are Murder Simulators

Video game revenues now reach $10 billion a year, which is more than that of television and movies combined, and is increasing. Half of fourth graders play "first-person shooter" (FPS) video games. After playing video games, young people exhibit measurable decreases in social behaviors, a 43 percent increase in aggressive thoughts, and a 17 percent increase in violent retaliation to provocation. Playing violent video games accounts for 13-22 percent of the variance in teenagers' violent behavior. By comparison, smoking tobacco accounts for 14 percent of the variance in lung cancer.

Video games have been used by the US Army to condition young recruits to kill without thinking. Video games give kids and teens the skill, the will, and the thrill to kill. Apart from the tendency of video games to arouse aggression, these games provide little mental stimulation to the brain's frontal lobe, an area that plays an important role in the repression of the antisocial impulses. A lack of stimulation prior to the age of twenty prevents the neurons from thickening and connecting, thereby impairing the brain's ability to control impulses such as violence and aggression.
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-CENSORED 2008 The Top 25 Censored Stories of 2006-07
-page 319
 
Half of fourth graders play "first-person shooter" (FPS) video games.
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Why on earth are parents allowing this? :mad:

Not only because kids shouldn't be playing games rated "M for Mature" but I am really tired of hearing some high pitched twelve year old complain in COD4 that I lobbed a grenade into his camping spot while his mommy made him take out the trash.
Apart from the tendency of video games to arouse aggression, these games provide little mental stimulation to the brain's frontal lobe, an area that plays an important role in the repression of the antisocial impulses.
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Oh, what a load.

When you're trying to coordinate a scout rush on Hydro with only one engineer watching the cap, no medics or heavies and a lousy sniper that can't aim I'd say it takes quite a bit of frontal lobe stimulation!
 
I played FPS games while a 6th grader... they were trap and skeet on pong.:D
Used a pistol to hit the little white ball.:o
Brent
 
Jeez, parents just need to be parents and teach AND discipline their kids. I don't necessarily blame the kids for being the way they are - the parents should have raised them right.

Now rather than giving an unruly kid a good a** whooping, we start the medication cycle - which never ends. I didn't know what ADD was when I was a kid but had I tried that with my parents I would have had to go to the doctor to have my Dad's boot removed.

I raised three responsible kids and I'm damn proud of that. Once when my son was about 13 and he was sassing his Mom I told him it's whooping time. He looked at me and threatened to call Social Services for child abuse. I said no problem, I'll make sure there's plenty of evidence. He looked at me and realized I wasn't kidding and he realized than his master plan had failed. Never had a problem after that.

My son is now a responsible soldier deployed to Iraq serving his country...
 
i think there are two trends that result in events like this.

One is the devaluing of life by various factors (video games, lack of religious participation or faith, etc.). Seems like people like the shooter have less regard for themselves and others. Generally, however, life is not so sacred as it used to be. There have always been the killers without remorse, and maybe we see more of them thanks to "if it bleeds, it leads" media hype.

100,000 people die every year from preventable infections caught in hospitals. Lots more than gun-related deaths of every stripe, but do you see any headlines in that? Nope, no drama, no axe to grind, but having health insurance that enables you to go to hospital may be more dangerous than not...(think about it Hillary).

Second factor IMO is a declining educational and moral level among many that allows them to think their way out of conflicts and restrains violent impulses. Some people just haven't been educated by parents, families and our lovely public school systems with enough tools to rise above silliness like stopping to have a fistfight over who owns the road.

I hate to sound like a snob but I gave up fist fighting, when there was an alternative, in my early teens. It never seemed to make any sense to me unless it was the only response to a threat. Whatever does it prove?

Now, a duel, pistols at 20 paces, might make sense for a few very extreme reasons. A fistfight?

The second factor makes me very wary of rude people. If you can't reason with someone because they are too busy emoting or understand what you are saying, it is like teaching opera to pigs. Total waste of time to deal with them any more than you have to. These are people to avoid in life if you can.

If someone is rude to you on the road or elsewhere, it is good to recall that the supreme insult is indifference. If someone finds you so useless they can't even hate you or get angry with you, what does that say about you?

In this regard, parents who let their kids do whatever they wish, wear what they want, etc., communicate indifference. So the people who brought you into the world cannot be shocked or lift a finger to react to anything you do, no matter how outrageous? I doubt this is a good lesson for a kid.

Even if in the right, my overriding goal is to get home every night. I don't care if the rude little man (or woman) knows what I think of them and that they care about it. No damage to me, I move on. If there were damage then react accordingly. Don't want trouble but I won't accept any either if it is unavoidable.
 
Interjection here on my part, but I will assume the gun was not legally purchased to begin with.
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I would really, really like to assume the same...
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I don't understand this.. is this because it makes it easier to think of this person as a criminal to begin?

People with violent tempers can legally purchase guns, too..
 
Now rather than giving an unruly kid a good a** whooping, we start the medication cycle - which never ends. I didn't know what ADD was when I was a kid but had I tried that with my parents I would have had to go to the doctor to have my Dad's boot removed.
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Medicating kids certainly isn't good but I certainly wouldn't recommend physical punishment to children. Congratulations on raising your own child but be careful not to assume that it's a good idea for anyone else to try.
 
Now, a duel, pistols at 20 paces, might make sense for a few very extreme reasons.
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How on earth would a duel ever make sense? It's barbaric to settle an argument with some sort of organized homicide.
 
I don't understand this.. is this because it makes it easier to think of this person as a criminal to begin?

People with violent tempers can legally purchase guns, too..
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No, because I'm hoping that this guy wasn't a licensed CCW holder that will be used by politicians to paint the rest in a bad light.
 
SELFISHNESS!!! It is a ME ME ME world as well as what was said above. Folks are under the impression the their time, money, happiness, respect is worth more than anyone else's...
Brent
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There it is. The sense of entitlement. The driver felt his needs exceeded the need for common courtesy and the second driver felt his were the priority.

Entitlement. None exists. Take nothing you haven't earned or wasn't given to you be someone else's free will. To do otherwise takes you closer and closer to becoming reprobate and eventually become a reprobate.
 
:confused:

What is it with everyone concerned about CCW? You have one or not! Carrie the damn thing on your side in the open let them see you have one and most of the problems are solved!

Ok I live in the south west. I live in a small town that condones this! I can Carrie concealed within my car, van, or mobile home. If I step out the door with it in my pocket I am in the wrong!

I drive through Border Patrol check point all the time. I give the them the courtesy of placing it on the dash board! They say good day were are you from , I state The U.S.A..

It's like it is Transparent!

I did get detained once! They pulled apart the contests of the truck and after found nothing said you can go now. I stated As soon as you put things back the way it was! They had pulled every thing out of the back of the truck and all was checked by the dog. Still on the side walk.

A hour later they completed the task.

Yep! life is GIVE and TAKE!
 
nate45,

Let me explain and answers your questions.

How many times have you pulled over and had a fistfight by the road side?
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None, but thats not to say I wouldn't if I knew that there was no chance I wouldn't get shot and killed. These days you cannot be sure about that, so I refrain. Back in my younger years, I would fight anytime, now I am a little more reserved.

Fighting is fighting, if you decide your going to engage someone in combat don't be suprised if they produce a weapon and gain the upper hand.
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Total BS. Fighting is not fighting for your life. People have problems with others, through driving, working, neighbor issues, etc. If those people are of the type that would rather solve things through fighting, then by all means.
Just because someone decides to settle it through fighting does not mean they are trying to KILL them, its just a scuffle. To think that just because two guys or two girls fight in order to kill, thats absurd, sure it happens these days all the time (thats the point of this thread).

So would you say that pulling a handgun in a fist fight with someone is JUSTIFIABLE? I would not think that if I were in a scuffle with someone that I feared for my life so I would pull a handgun on someone. I was always taught you only pull a gun if you intent to use it, not some macho lets pull a gun and end this disagreement.

I don't think anythings changed regarding the rules of street fighting, there are none.
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Again, total baloney. What is this mortal kombat? People do not always intend to do malice and harm to the point of death through fighting, bloody noses, black eyes, and fat lips are typical results. To say that there are no rules is crap, there are. Now, again, the topic of this thread is WHY in today's society are there more and more examples of things not being done like I described?

If you don't want to get shot, stabbed or beaten, its best to avoid senseless confrontations with strangers. Try being polite and watch your temper and hand jesters or you might anger the wrong psychopath.
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In today's society you are right, it is best to keep your trap shut, but back to the topic again, what changed that from the old days? Not saying everything from the past was correct, but this thing I wish we could go back to.

I never throw hand gestures, talk trash, etc. unless I know I am willing to back it up.

I had an incident where I cut off another driver. I motioned the typical sorry and waved because it was my fault. He in turn was still pissed about it and kept doing the speeding up, slowing down thing in front of my vehicle. I started getting upset because I apologized, he is the one now provoking something, so I motioned for him to stop. I pulled over, he went to also and produced a handgun from under his seat and pointed it at me. I immediately started driving again, got off the roadway and called it in. Did my actions warrant someone brandishing a handgun? No, of course not, but in todays society it is more common.
 
The driver at fault stopped, the other car pulled along side and shot him and his female passenger to death for a minor traffic altercation, road rage.
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I am dumbfounded. My thoughts, you can't stop this from happening, but you can help bring them to trial. I am a firm believer in the 2nd, so don't think I'm against weapons. Started my own collection, and I'm ex-military. We need camera's all over the major cities like they have in Europe. At one time I was totally against this, but since 9/11, my attitude has changed immensly. They've caught some major players in London because of the coverage they have, and we need to think seriously about having it here. If I was a criminal, I'd be against it, I'm not, so I don't. My 2 cents.
 
Redworm,
About the duel. Totally a personal outlook, but there are a few circumstances (and I mean VERY FEW) might I would enter into a duel with someone. If someone murdered one of my kids, I might consider the chance to kill him/her personally with favor. Not many other circumstances I would think rate that level of commitment.

On the other hand, a fist fight for any reason seems utterly pointless to me. A fist fight with the killer of my kid makes no sense. Give him a bloody nose? What does that prove?

A duel might let me visit the kind of violence that person visited on my child. It is not as Jesus taught us, but it might make sense. I really don't know.

Don't really want to find out, either.
 
Disagree with Boringaccountant!

People who get in fights with strangers because they are pissed off are STUPID! It is against the law to fight or engage in mutual combat in all states. That is why cops may and often do arrest people who are fighting. If you get in a fight with someone it may escalate into something way beyond what you intend. If a fight can be avoided by shutting the h*ll up and walking or driving away then you have a moral and legal obligation to do so. Deciding to engage in combat and expecting a "fair" fight is STUPID. If you are attacked then defend yourself but if you engage in a fistfight with another adult then in my opinion you are DUMB and need to go to jail.
 
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