Doug.38PR - When he flips his guns around it is called a "Road Agent Spin". I have a pal who can do them quite well. They are mainly for show, but some of them could be real handy on the street today. Would be a hell of a surprise for a mugger who gets the drop on ya. Another example is in the movie "Tombstone" when Curly Bill gets high on opium and shoots Fred, the Town Marshall, while turning over his guns.
Cowboy gunfights, real or fiction?
- Thread starter BoneDigger
- Start date
Clint Eastwood directed The Outlaw Josey Wales. I've heard from "other people" as well as other forums that Eastwood has a sizable collection of antique handguns and is rather knowledgable when it comes to shooting. Well I'll call Clint tonight to verify this. 
Anyhow comparing Josey Wales, Unforgiven and Pale Rider to Clint's earlier westerns leads me to believe that he at least got a technical adviser for the later westerns. It should be pointed out that he also directed Pale Rider and Unforgiven. So maybe there is something to the rumor that he is a collector and shooter.
As far as life in the old west? Well personally I've always liked Bat Masterson. He worked as a buffalo hunter and possibly as a cowboy in his younger days. But ,when he got a little older, he became a lawman and then a professional gambler. He liked the urban lifestyle and was known for his clothes and his firearms. Evidently he could afford the better guns then being made. He ended his days working as a sports writer for a New York City newspaper. Now he was a realistic man. I bet he would appreciate air conditiong and my lazy boy recliner.
Anyhow comparing Josey Wales, Unforgiven and Pale Rider to Clint's earlier westerns leads me to believe that he at least got a technical adviser for the later westerns. It should be pointed out that he also directed Pale Rider and Unforgiven. So maybe there is something to the rumor that he is a collector and shooter.
As far as life in the old west? Well personally I've always liked Bat Masterson. He worked as a buffalo hunter and possibly as a cowboy in his younger days. But ,when he got a little older, he became a lawman and then a professional gambler. He liked the urban lifestyle and was known for his clothes and his firearms. Evidently he could afford the better guns then being made. He ended his days working as a sports writer for a New York City newspaper. Now he was a realistic man. I bet he would appreciate air conditiong and my lazy boy recliner.
Kevin Quinlan
Moderator
Wild Bill Hickock was once asked what is the best gun to use in a gunfight. His response was " a 12 guage shotgun......preferabily from ambush"
Kevin
Kevin
HighValleyRanch
New member
Okay, since you are blowing my myths, tell me the truth,
Did cowboys shoot one handed or two handed?
If you look at the design of the revolver, with the curved backstrap it was designed to recoil up and the cocking of the hammer with the shooting hand thumb, so I believe the single action was specifically designed for one handed shooting.
Now at all the cowboy action shoots, you see most everyone shooting two handed, which I believe is historically incorrect. If you watch all the old westerns, as inaccurate as they might have been, you never see any of the old timers shooting two handed, and they must have been at least closer to remembering how single actions were shot than we in modern times.
The 1873 design of the grip, curved backstrap harkens back to the old colt navy types. I was told by black powder shooters that part of the action of cocking these was to tip the muzzle up to be sure that the caps didn't get into the action. That's one reason why revolvers don't have overhangs (read beavertails like semi autos).
If they shot two handed, cocking with the other thumb, then I believe that somewhere along the line, they would have started coming out with an overhang for control and recoil.
What'da you all think?
Been pondering this one for a while.....
Did cowboys shoot one handed or two handed?
If you look at the design of the revolver, with the curved backstrap it was designed to recoil up and the cocking of the hammer with the shooting hand thumb, so I believe the single action was specifically designed for one handed shooting.
Now at all the cowboy action shoots, you see most everyone shooting two handed, which I believe is historically incorrect. If you watch all the old westerns, as inaccurate as they might have been, you never see any of the old timers shooting two handed, and they must have been at least closer to remembering how single actions were shot than we in modern times.
The 1873 design of the grip, curved backstrap harkens back to the old colt navy types. I was told by black powder shooters that part of the action of cocking these was to tip the muzzle up to be sure that the caps didn't get into the action. That's one reason why revolvers don't have overhangs (read beavertails like semi autos).
If they shot two handed, cocking with the other thumb, then I believe that somewhere along the line, they would have started coming out with an overhang for control and recoil.
What'da you all think?
Been pondering this one for a while.....
From what I have seen in old paintings from the time and something I read somewhere, cowboy types shot one handed.
It was some kind of extension of the old dueling stance.
The guy that taught me to shoot revolvers was 60 years old 30 years ago, it's how he taught me.
I think it would be hard to shoot two handed from a horse anyway
CarbineCaleb
New member
Yep - "Outlaw Josey Wales" and "Unforgiven" are my two favorite westerns. Clint is actually quite a bright guy.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
Yes, as with fencing, you presented a smaller target side on.
The two handed stance did not really get going in the US until IPSC and Weaver developing the 'Weaver stance'. Then you got that whole renaissance of shooting with the likes of Geoff Cooper injecting his four penneth of thought.
The two handed stance did not really get going in the US until IPSC and Weaver developing the 'Weaver stance'. Then you got that whole renaissance of shooting with the likes of Geoff Cooper injecting his four penneth of thought.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
The "code of the west" called for facing a guy when you shot him, for it to be a "legal killin'". Okay. Fine. You ease up behind a guy with your gun in your hand, holler, "Hey, Fred!" and when he turns, you shoot him in the front.
My mother met Bat Masterson when she was a young girl. She recalled him as quite well dressed, a dapper gentleman. He got his nickname from the small bat he used in lieu of a pistol, on minor badguy behavior. Ease up behind a noisy drunk, and Whap!
My family was involved in the Sutton-Taylor feud in DeWitt County, Texas, allied with the Taylors. John Wesley Hardin for a while was on our side.
It turns out that Jim Wilson's mother's family were Taylors, so we're on the same side. 
There was a shotout in a saloon in Fort Stockton, Texas, back in the 1880s. Some sixty shots were fired by eight guys. Nobody was hit, although the building looked like a colander.
I think it was in Oklahoma that a guy with a pistol started shooting at a guy with a rifle. The headstone (wood?) allegedly read that the pistolero committed suicide.
There's a grave in Boothill in Tombstone which reads, "Here lies Les Moore. Five shots from a .44. No Les, no more."
The one which will grab you though, is the marker there which says, "Hanged by mistake."
Art
My mother met Bat Masterson when she was a young girl. She recalled him as quite well dressed, a dapper gentleman. He got his nickname from the small bat he used in lieu of a pistol, on minor badguy behavior. Ease up behind a noisy drunk, and Whap!
My family was involved in the Sutton-Taylor feud in DeWitt County, Texas, allied with the Taylors. John Wesley Hardin for a while was on our side.
It turns out that Jim Wilson's mother's family were Taylors, so we're on the same side. There was a shotout in a saloon in Fort Stockton, Texas, back in the 1880s. Some sixty shots were fired by eight guys. Nobody was hit, although the building looked like a colander.
I think it was in Oklahoma that a guy with a pistol started shooting at a guy with a rifle. The headstone (wood?) allegedly read that the pistolero committed suicide.
There's a grave in Boothill in Tombstone which reads, "Here lies Les Moore. Five shots from a .44. No Les, no more."
The one which will grab you though, is the marker there which says, "Hanged by mistake."
Art
BoneDigger
New member
gunfights
So, the next thing you're going to tell me is that Blazing Saddles isn't historically accurate?
Do any of you remember an old wester (70s) about a pair of brothers that were WAAAY fast, I think it had Fonda in it as well. If I remember correctly the movie was called "My Name is Nobody" or "Nobody was Faster" or something like that? Pretty cool shooting effects and a funny movie!
Anyway, I really appreciate all of the replies to my post. I have learned a lot from you guys.
What brands and calibers of pistol were common for the late nineteenth century when all of this would have taken place?
Todd
So, the next thing you're going to tell me is that Blazing Saddles isn't historically accurate?
Do any of you remember an old wester (70s) about a pair of brothers that were WAAAY fast, I think it had Fonda in it as well. If I remember correctly the movie was called "My Name is Nobody" or "Nobody was Faster" or something like that? Pretty cool shooting effects and a funny movie!
Anyway, I really appreciate all of the replies to my post. I have learned a lot from you guys.
What brands and calibers of pistol were common for the late nineteenth century when all of this would have taken place?
Todd
In my name is Nobody Terance Hill was a bounty hunter and Fonda was the outlaw he was hired to track down, but became friends with.
Sometime in the mid 70's.
Terance hill was in another series of westerns They Call Me Trinity and Trinity is Still My Name, plus some more that weren't really Trinity films but the name was added for recognition.
In that one Hill starred as the super fast gunman with Bud Spencer as his brother Bambino
I bet Hill really could draw and fire without dropping his saddle
Sometime in the mid 70's.
Terance hill was in another series of westerns They Call Me Trinity and Trinity is Still My Name, plus some more that weren't really Trinity films but the name was added for recognition.
In that one Hill starred as the super fast gunman with Bud Spencer as his brother Bambino
I bet Hill really could draw and fire without dropping his saddle
There was an old movie, El Diablo, with Louis Gossett Jr. and the brain tumor doctor from ER.
It was about a dime novel educated eastener who teams up with a true cowboy gunfighter to rescue a girl from an outlaw
My favorite scene from the movie.
"You shot him in the back"
"His back was to me"
It was about a dime novel educated eastener who teams up with a true cowboy gunfighter to rescue a girl from an outlaw
My favorite scene from the movie.
"You shot him in the back"
"His back was to me"
Get yourself a copy of Triggernometry - a Gallery of Gunfighters It will tell you about all the guys you've heard of and some you probably haven't.
Robert Garner
New member
In the book "Tales of Kentucky Fueds" is a "woodcut" picture of a man taking aim with a revolver,elbow is bent about halfway twixt 90 and 180 degrees,wrist held level.
My supposition was the shorter length of hold from torso made holding easier and the bent elbow took up recoil as does a water skiers bent knees?
just a minor observation from the nearsited
My supposition was the shorter length of hold from torso made holding easier and the bent elbow took up recoil as does a water skiers bent knees?
just a minor observation from the nearsited
HighValleyRanch
New member
Could be the artist knew nothing about shooting as well, rather than an actually depiction of how they shot.
Saw a guy thumb cock a Glock in the movie once. Shows the producers were using their "artistic" license for effect.
100W_Warlock
New member
Shotguns were used just as often as pistols...
I read just a while ago that the history of the shotgun is somehow muted in todays telling of days gone by.
Shotguns were far more affordable and readily available than were the Winchester rifle or Colt SAA.
Single shot rifles were quite popular as well.
There is a reason John Wayne prefered "Greeners" in a fight.
Alot more shot could come from a pair of barrels than on a SAA. (9 pellets each of 00 buck were just as effective at killing than a cylinder full of 44-40 against a single target)
Stage coaches were regularly held up (and defended for that matter) with shortened side by side shotguns. (hence the term "coach gun") Easy to reload, good stopping power, and ammo was cheap and could be reloaded just as easy as walking down to your local hardware/dry goods store.
My great-great-grandfather and his brothers would load black powder shells with #6 shot for turkey hunting in the Dakotas. Each hunter only carried a dozen or so shells, but, each one did the same thing...put dinner on the table at home.
I read just a while ago that the history of the shotgun is somehow muted in todays telling of days gone by.
Shotguns were far more affordable and readily available than were the Winchester rifle or Colt SAA.
Single shot rifles were quite popular as well.
There is a reason John Wayne prefered "Greeners" in a fight.
Alot more shot could come from a pair of barrels than on a SAA. (9 pellets each of 00 buck were just as effective at killing than a cylinder full of 44-40 against a single target)
Stage coaches were regularly held up (and defended for that matter) with shortened side by side shotguns. (hence the term "coach gun") Easy to reload, good stopping power, and ammo was cheap and could be reloaded just as easy as walking down to your local hardware/dry goods store.
My great-great-grandfather and his brothers would load black powder shells with #6 shot for turkey hunting in the Dakotas. Each hunter only carried a dozen or so shells, but, each one did the same thing...put dinner on the table at home.
CarbineCaleb
New member
Clint as Josey Wales
I recall Eastwood stating in a magazine interview I read that he owned a .44 magnum. He didn't mention the brand, but safe bet it was a S&W. I noticed one of his recent films - forget the title, but the one where he played a retired FBI agent - he had a PC 8 shot .357. I suspect if Clint asks S&W for a special gun, they will give him anything he wants
CarbineCaleb
New member
Clint in "Unforgiven"
