Cowboy gunfights, real or fiction?

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BoneDigger

New member
Please excuse my ignorance, but I've always wanted to ask this...

In movies you see cowboys shooting from the hip and firing multiple times using the old quick-fire method of using the left hand to rapidly cock the gun (you know what I mean right?). Is this strictly a Hollywood misrepresentation of how gunfights actually worked, or were they actually firing this way? If so, how did this work? Did they have the trigger wired back or something? Also, what caliber were they using? If they are holding the gun at hip level and using a single hand to hold it steady I presume it was something less than .40 caliber?

On the rifleman, the guy had a rifle that he could cock by basically rotating it in a circle. How did he do that? Is there a special lever/cocker you need?

Todd
 
Dear BoneDigger:

I am an old guy coming up on 70 years. My grandfather (long since deceased) was actually born in a wagon on the Oregon Trail. When he was a little older (16 or 17) he worked on a number of wagon trains as a packer and a number two trail boss (Boss's assistant) and he had the opportunity to actually witness more than one gunfight.

He also lived to be a very old man and was familiar with the portrayal of gunfighters on television. He really enjoyed that because it made him laugh at how gunfighters were described on television.

He told me that the stuff you see on television (fast draw, shooting from the hip, fanning the hammer) was largely a lot of junk. He told me that there were guys in those times that could do that kind of stuff but these were not really gunfighters more like exhibition shooters.

My grandfather told me that the gunfighters he actually saw shoot and kill people were the fastest at getting off an aimed shot. They did not use fancy holsters, often had their revolver stuck in their belt, and were intent in being the first to get off the aimed shot not just the first guy with a gun out of the holster. He also told me that gunfighters (in those days) were pretty much cold blooded, hired killers - and were known as such. They were not thought of as heros - just killers. So, once again, popular media has "spun" the stories for popular consumption - not for truth.
 
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It's not ignorance at all

I'm not an expert and I'm sure many will chime in, but the Gunsmoke draw & shoot of the old west is generally considered to be a myth. There are always exceptions and one is when Wild Bill shot and killed Bill Tutt from 50 yards in the main street of Springfield after Tutt had fired the first shot.

My impression is that most "gunfights" were either back shots or spray and run.
 
The revolver could be modified for a slip trigger, but those were just for exhibitions. Fan any single action and you will have troubles in short order.
The lever action on the Rifleman had an oversized loop lever. This allowed the rifle to be spun around and cocked provided your arm is long enough. This style of rifle was also used by John Wayne. He first used it back in the late 1930s.
 
He also told me that gunfighters (in those days) were pretty much cold blooded, hired killers - and were known as such. They were not thought of as heros - just killers. So, once again, popular media has "spun" the stories for popular consumption - not for truth.
Click to expand...
I'm 70 in a few days and I agree with dairycreek and can't add anything to what he posted. Take it to the bank. ;)
 
Fanning with the off hand is extremely inaccurate with typical heavy loads and very hard on the internals of a single-action not otherwise modified for it. There were supposedly one or two shooters in the old days who either wired their trigger back, or removed it altogether, for slip firing. Slip firing is a little easier on the gun.
The Rifleman's Model 92 Winchester had a set-screw mounted in the triggerguard of that oversize ringlever that could be turned in to trip the trigger every time the lever was closed. That was the secret of the speed with that rig. I have an old magazine article that says Chuck Connors could come pretty close by using his trigger finger, but there'd be the risk of mis-timing, and that was supposedly one of the main reasons the set-screw was devised. There was also another modification made just above the chamber on that (those, there were at least three) rifle to keep the .44-40 blanks from just tipping out as the rifle was spun.
Firing from the hip was an exhibition shooting trick, it can be done but takes quite a bit of practice. Those who seriously shot at other people generally at least brought the gun up to somewhere near eye level and at least pointed it, the more successful ones aimed, as mentioned above.
Denis
 
bob munden say the shootouts in the movies are horsedung. say it couldn't be done with those types of weapons. (the way hollywood portrays it) good enough for me...
 
There were killers, gunfighters and lawmen. I have all three in my genetic make up. The killers were often better prepared and better armed and brought friends and family along. Think of night riders. Gunfighters had as many firearms, tactical advantages and technological advances on their side as possible. This could be thought of as Selman v. Hardin. Lawmen often used firearms. It would have been their choice to use a family member as a traitor to allow an arrest without a shot being fired. When that SOP failed, they used superior firepower and terrorism. Who would want to face a 10 bore SxS loaded with rusty detritus? Swearing in deputies and issuing 10 bores was a SOP. As for the Hollyweird portrayal, there were some impressive displays. In one old west gunfight, 12 shots were fired at pointblank range and noone was even hit. There is one recorded incident of a outlaw emptying his LA rifle. He cycled the action but, forgot to pull the trigger. Bass Outlaw had a pair of 51 or 60 Colts in black powder with the triggers removed, the hammers modified for sliphammering and chopped off barrels. The Danites and Rockwell, the Mormon Angel of Death also used similar modified revolvers. Most gunfights were up close and personal. Fire from the muzzle flash was often more cause for alarm than accurate aimed fire. In the Hickock-Tutt shootout, the deciding factor was the fact that Wild Bill had fresh powder and a properly loaded cylinder. It was the better prepared man that won the fight often.
 
The type of person called a "gunfighter" today was called a lot of other names, like "thug", in the old days, and was accorded the same combination of watchfulness and fear a Mid-east looking guy with a backpack gets on the London underground. They were often simply bandits, killing for money or for the fun of it. Some were hired by competing ranchers as "enforcers", armed thugs who were sometimes given badges by corrupt law officers.

Most of the "cowboy" myth is baloney. The real cowboys were often drifters and hobos working only long enough to get money to move on. They did not own their own horses, and rarely owned their own saddles. Both belonged to the ranch, and they took whatever horse the wrangler put out for them that day. The work was hard, dirty and damned smelly. Injuries were common and OSHA would have a fit if any industry had that kind of record today.

A cowboy got a half buck a day (same as an Army private), and his food. He supplied his own clothes and boots. They did sometimes carry guns, but they were not SAA Colts; common guns were "suicide specials", cheap .32 and .38 DA revolvers, surplus Civil War percussion revolvers (conversions were almost unknown), and a miscellany of junk most gun collectors today wouldn't look at twice. A Colt SAA was around $16, which was a month's pay. Those who wanted a gun were a lot more likely to buy a $2 revolver and use the rest of the money for, well, other kinds of "gun" use when they got to town.

On some ranches, handguns were banned and any cowboy caught with one was fired. When a rifle was needed to deal with wild animals or wild people, or to hunt game, the cowboy was issued one by the rancher or the straw boss.

Sound romantic? Not to me. Maybe I am just too old, but to me sitting in an air-conditioned house typing beats the hell out of looking at the ass ends of a bunch of wild cows and eating their dust and smelling their...

Enough of that. I don't think the life of a cowboy would have been for me.

Jim
 
A bit of Wild West trivia.

Hickok's real name was James Butler Hickok. It seems he had what is sometimes called "pursed" lips*, and someone gave him the name "duck bill" from their resemblance to the bill of a duck. When he became known as a fast but not very responsible gunman, the nickname was changed to "Wild Bill", the name he will carry forever in legend.

*He wore a mustache to try to cover his lips, but their odd shape can be seen in photos.

Jim
 
If you get the History Channel, watch Wild West Tech. There have been a number of episodes that deal with your question. There was one on gunfighting and gunfighters tools. There was another specifically on firearms. Another interesting episode was on the town Deadwood.
And for those of you that think gun control is something new, there was a program on the shoot out at the OK corral. Know what precipitated that? The outlaws refusing to give up their handguns when they came into town. All handguns had to be turned into the sheriffl. Wyatt Earp tried to enforce it.
Someone also mentioned that the better prepared fighter usually won. This topic was also covered. Many gunfighters, particularly in the era of the percussion revolver, made a habit of unloading, cleaning, and reloading everyday. Not a simple process, but necessary to ensure reliability. There is a reason for the old good bye, "keep your powder dry."
If I remember correctly, there was one gunfighter that was known for fanning his revolver. He was also known not to be terribly accurate when doing this.
An awful lot of gunfights did occur wtihout much warning, and it is not just hollywood that they occured over card games. (There was another episode on gambling.) Acceptable justification for killing was often for pretty minimal stuff.
Someone else mentioned spending money on the other gun. One of the grossest episodes was on prostitution in those days. Almost enough to make you want to swear off sex for a week. Check it out. Its been pretty entertaining and informative.
 
I have been a bit skeptical of the History Channel ever since they did a program on Bonnie and Clyde and showed an SKS and an AK-47. Gosh, those two were really well armed.

As for the famous gunfight, it was less about law enforcement than about a personal squabble between the Clantons and the Earps. Virgil Earp was Tombstone Chief of Police*. He apparently deputized his brothers, but Holliday was little more than a hanger on. He was the town drunk, and not an upstanding law officer, even when he could stand up. Sheriff Behan, a friend of the Clantons, tried to make peace, but to no avail as the Earps were clearly determined to settle the vendetta once and for all.

*Chief of Police was a town office. Sheriff was a county office and since Tombstone was the county seat of Cochise County, Behan had his office there. (Tombstone was the county seat until 1929, when Bisbee became the county seat.) Any rule on carrying guns in Tombstone itself would presumably have been a town ordinance, enforced by the Chief of Police (Virgil Earp).

Jim
 
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I'm sorry, I never meant to imply that the sole reason for the shoot out at the OK corral was soley over gun control. It was obviously the excuse for the confrontation though. The point was, city ordinances against carrying in town were common.
I dont ever recall any error on the history channel as blatant as Bonnie and Clyde carrying an AK.
Most of the people interviewed for Wild West Tech are nationally recognized historians or other experts. I think their accuracy is very very good, much better than I typically see on most TV.
Try viewing it sometime before you condemn it.
 
My favorite was the Outlaw Josey Wales. I noticed he (clint eastwood)didn't do a lot of that hip shooting or "fanning" the gun with the palm of his hand as he did in the Spagetti whistle westerns where he fans down 4 or 5 guys in a split second. (Ha, as I type this message I am watching Two Mules for Sister Sara on AMC and I just watched Eastwood shoot down a man running away from him about 25 yards by faning three bullets into him. I laughed as I saw him fan the hammer and the gun bobbled all over the place each time his palm would slap across the top of the gun :D) Anyway, in Outlaw JW he simply pulls his guns and takes quick aim shooting each bad guy down one at a time as quick as he can and loaded down with as many pistols as he can get on his person :cool: more realistic that way I guess. THe only real amazing thing he does that's more exihbition kinda thing is when he is holding his two Walker Dragoons by the barrels pretending to surrender them to two thugs he then in the blink of an eye flips the guns over in his hands and cracks a shot in each man. Great movie
 
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