Could this mean that a semi auto ban would be overturned?

[44 AMP]

but I have to be honest and say I unless we're talking TEOTWAWKI I would not want to be on that team.

And honestly, I would not want to be on that team either. But if I felt I had to be on that team, I would be. And I would be bringing along as many other players as I could.

The militia is not dead. It still exists. It isn't often visible, it isn't organised, and as long as the military/police/national guard have a handle on things, it stays sleeping. But when no formal organised (official) group responds, the citizens band together (which is all a militia really is), and do what needs doing.

We may not have regular meetings, other than coffee at the diner, or chatting on the 'net. We may not wear uniforms, or practice military discipline. We may not conduct practice field exercises, and we may even think much more highly of our capabilities than appearences suggest, but we are still out there. And if we see the need, we do respond.

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

This is one area where we have disagreed before and I can see that neither of us is going to be persuaded to change their mind.

Bill, that's OK, I am not trying to change anybody's mind, however, I hope each of us can learn from the other as we discuss things. I have certainly learned from you and many others here.

We The People are the fourth branch

Bill, we are not a branch of government, we ARE the government. However, we are also a republic and the separations of power were intended to restrain those we elected from becoming despots. And for 230 years it has worked.

As to the incidents you mentioned in WWII. I know from time to time the military and the police may call upon ordinary citizens to assist them in their duties. However, I think making the case that doing so is a militia as described by the 2A is too much of a stretch. I debated before on here with a gentleman named Jon Roland who felt that calling the police when one saw a crime constituted militia activity. I disagreed and distinguished civic duty from the militia and it's now-defunct purpose.

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

I can't understand TG's narrow view on this subject. He has contributed so much good stuff here. I still regard his viewpoint highly.

First of all thanks for your kind words and I am thnakful to you and mods like Al Norris that we can have a reasoned discussion on these issues. One note about the "narrowness" of my views. Keep in mind that most who post on here belong to the gun culture. I have no problem with that but many of the views here about the insurrection theory, militias and armed citizenry are really minority views when taken as a whole by our current US society. Talk to Joe on the street and mention militias and insurrection against the government and you are likely to get some strange looks. My point is that even though I might be in the minority on this forum, I may not be elsewhere. Not that your opinion doesn't count it does, just try to avoid the smugness that some on here project.

TG declares the demise of the militia because its current form does not fit his expectations.

I declare it dead because it is dead and has no form to fit the expectations or requirements the Founding Fathers put on it then or that our society has today. It doesn't exist.

The post-Katrina picture that TG derisively posted proves the existence of the militia. There were numerous news reports after Katrina about neighbors who banded together and defended their neighborhoods against the predations of looters. Although they lacked a pre-defined chain of command and the formalizations of which military organizations are so fond, those citizens organized themselves and protected their communities.

That example by your own description is not a militia. Unless you subscribe to the theory folks like Jon Roland put forth that civic duty or self defense is the militia. I think that theory is wrong IMO.
If you and I resist with firearms a robbery are we in the militia?

The idea that where two or more are gathered togther with guns constitutes a militia shows a complete historical misunderstanding of what the militia of the 2A was and seems more like a romantic notion than reality.

Finally, since everyone here likes to quote old dead folks here is one from George Washington's first State of the Union address:

A free people ought not to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan requisite

You see 'ole George knew that a mob with guns was not only ineffective militarily but dangerous. As I stated before We the American People killed the militia, may it rest in peace.

 

[gc70]

Originally posted by Tennessee Gentleman
The idea that where two or more are gathered togther with guns constitutes a militia shows a complete historical misunderstnding of what the militia of the 2A was and seems more like a romantic notion than reality.

The historical misunderstanding is that the militia aspired to in the language of the Second Amendment is the only form of militia. Militias have existed for millenia as people acted collectively to defend and ensure order in their communities.

Militias are "a romantic notion" only if one is willing to deny the evidence of current events. Militias are active in Iraq and many other countries where warfare and lawlessness have threatened communities and the people have responded collectively to defend and ensure order in their communities.

Arguing that the absence of a 1789-style militia means that the militia is dead is about the same as arguing that the right to keep and bear arms only applies to 1789-era weapons.

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

The historical misunderstanding is that the militia aspired to in the language of the Second Amendment is the only form of militia. Militias have existed for millenia as people acted collectively to defend and ensure order in their communities.

Militias are "a romantic notion" only if one is willing to deny the evidence of current events. Militias are active in Iraq and many other countries where warfare and lawlessness have threatened communities and the people have responded collectively to defend and ensure order in their communities.

The militia were not created by the common law. Militia law in the US was statutory law. The charter of each American colony included authority to create militia units. All American colonies passed militia laws under the authority granted by their charters. There never was a period of common law militia in America.

The concept of the militia to remember is that it was a SYSTEM to create organized armed forces for the colony. The militia could be called out by local officials for defense purposes or called out by the colonial leadership. There was also fighting and killing done by groups that were not militia units.

This is what the militia was. That is not reality today.

Arguing that the absence of a 1789-style militia means that the militia is dead is about the same as arguing that the right to keep and bear arms only applies to 1789-era weapons.

No it just means things have changed. Militia as I stated above had a specific purpose defined by law. Law has modified that meaning. The second part of your statement does not follw for it speaks to technology not law.

 

[44 AMP]

Because I am evil....

I'm going to throw some gasoline on the smoldering embers and then duck for cover....

What about all the "militias" that were part of the "vast right wing conspiracy" that the Clintons were so fond of telling us about?

Are they all gone?

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

What about all the "militias" that were part of the "vast right wing conspiracy" that the Clintons were so fond of telling us about?

Are they all gone?

If I told you, you would have to be killed.

 

[Al Norris]

We seem to have two threads that at this point in time, are both discussing the militia aspect of the 2A.

Could this mean that a semi auto ban would be overturned? (this thread) and 2nd Amendment; Why it's so important. the other thread - Both discussions in both threads are perhaps off topic.

The discussions in both are quite good, and I hate to close them both... Hmmm....

Upon further investigation, it is this thread that has gone off topic and will remain closed.