Could someone give some quick diff. of .223 vs. .308 in regards to a poss new purch

T

tAKticool

New member
Basically I am looking for some quick, not extensive just a little more than basic details on the diff between .223 and .308 in regards to a possible new purchase , probably a bolt-action rifle ... I am looking down the road to my next purchase which would be a Savage or Possibly a Remington 700, *possibly* a Browning A-Bolt or Tikka, maybe.

I am looking to fill out my portfolio of long guns and have most basis covered. Recently got the AR covered in my "BSHM4AK" and it's chambered 5.56 ... so I'd like now a scoped long(er) range rifle. I know that there are great caliber wars especially heated about 233 vs 308 and I DO NOT WISH TO INVOKE THAT. Just wonder what the practical differences. Would .223 out of a bolt action rifle be just the exact damn same as out of my Bushmaster, and not worth it at all? Or would it be a great deal better cause it would be a 20"-to-26" barrel, with greater accuracy/powder burning/spinning/etc. vs. my 14.5" barrel with 1.5" AK74 brake? WOuld it be better to have another .223 rifle in the stable and have just that caliber to concentrate on, or better completely .308?

I'm thinking if I'm really interested in long rang shooting, from a scoped rifle, there is no question .308 is the way to go. Now granted, I am not presently capable of shooting real far and I know that. But I would MUCH RATHER, I think, but a nice to nice-plus bolt action rifle, in .308, and get a real nice scope, and be able to train and work up to the capabilities of the rifle.. than have a .223 that shoots a few hundred, and by the time I am consistently real good at shooting a few hundred yards/m's ... I have overtaken the capabilities of the rifle.

I have shot a .308 Rem 700 tactical real nice "sniper rifle" at The Gun Store in Las Vegas. It was an indoor range so it wasn't far at all but for the 5-10 rounds my first trip and then 25 rounds my second trip, I remember shooting very very well and I don't think it was very recoil-intensive. IF I remember correctly, and its quite possible I don't and I am wrong,. I think my Mossberg 930SPX had MUCH worse recoil than the .308 Rem 700.

So do you guys think, better to get the .308 and have the ability to do real precise, real long, hard hitting shots and be able to grow into that capability, and be set for life with a nice nice rifle, or not necessary, just get a .223 rifle and say, how many times will you ever be shooting 200+ yards and you have a smaller, less powerful, less heavy, one-round to concentrate on and you caN STOCK it up for the AR and the scoped rifle?

Thanks much for your always helpful always good info.

tAK
 
Do you reload?? Cost of ammo may be quite different between the two... Tho I dont know about factory load costs...Havent bought any for yrs.
 
Short answer: 308 will buck the wind better, provide more energy on target, be more expensive to shoot, and recoil more. Recoil can be mitigated very well with a proper recoil pad (Limbsaver or Decelerator).
 
If you are just punching holes in paper or sniping groundhogs .223 will do the job fine. If you want to reach out with some punch .308 would be better (my dad had the Savage and it shot great) but then you are opening up a can of worms on caliber selection. Someone will chime in with 30-06 because its a classic proven round, then .270 because its flatter trajectory, then 7mm, then .300 Winchester Mag, etc. etc.
If there is one thing we all have in common it's that we love spending other peoples money! (Me included).
Seriously though all you have to do is decide if you want to specialize in one caliber, or diversify. I'm in favor of having multiple calibers so that I'm more likely to have the right tool for the right occasion if it arises, but sticking to one has it's merits.
My vote is for the .308... or the 30-06 or the .270... OK I'll just shut up now.;)
 
The .308 and .223 will both kill paper out to say....600 yards. After that, the .308 will continue to do better, IMO. Do you need the higher down range energy? (just wanting it is a valid reason too....because you can!)

Do you have a range where you can shoot 400 to 800+ yards? If not, I would opt for a .223. It is cheaper to shoot.

I have a .223 Remington 788 that will shoots sub-MOA. I do not swap ammo between it and my AR-15s.

For either caliber , I would seriously look into reloading if you wish to get the accuracy you desire. Your cost per trigger pull will be less too.
 
Thanks a lot to most !!

First off thanks much to most !! I am definitely doing the .308 I have always wanted that, I just wantes to make sure there wasn't a real big anti of the .308 or secret overlooked plus of 223

I don't reload nor do I plan, I simply don't have the slightest inclinai
 
My rem sps will outshoot my bushmaster ALL day, especially with the handloading tricks bolt actions like.

HOWEVER. If you reload, which is gonna be a no brainer if you are doing a good amount of shooting, especially at longer ranges, then the 308 is for sure the way to go. Look at it this way: buy a cheap box of 308 rounds that will shoot waaay worse than anything you can load= 15 or 20 dollars for 20 rounds...

load your own= 175smk (bout 30 cents), primer (3 cents), varget (about 13 cents) and brass (negligible). Loading your own 308, which will be very good quality, will run you about 50 cents per GOOD round. You can do it much cheaper if you use surplus components etc. Check out the price for loaded match rounds... black hills etc lol.

load your own 223= 69smk ( bout 20 cents), primer (3 cent), varget (around 8 cents), and brass (negligible). You will be looking at about 30 cents a round that will shoot lights out, verses the 40 cent junk stuff.

Both rifles will reach out to 500 yards and ring steel, but the 308 will do it more easily and with more authority. I regularly shoot my 223 bolt out to just under 500 yards at ipsc steel torsos. I have no trouble drilling the half size torso, provided the wind is not particularly ornery.

I like the 308 for this much better since the larger round bucks the wind much better and is much more versatile. You can take deer with both rounds, but the 308 will give you much more margin for error. The recoil is not bad at all, but it is a good deal more than the 223. You gotta pay for that extra payload lol.

It is going to come down to what you already have and what you need. I will wager that you can shoot that AR out to 400 yards and ring steel all day. SOOO, for me it would boil down to cost of ammunition and how much you will shoot. if you are not going to reload, I would go 223 bolt. If you can roll your own, go 308.

One more thing to consider: get a savage 10 etc in whichever one you like. When you wear the barrel out or just want a change, get a prethreaded barrel and some of the tools (i bought about $70 worth of stuff) and just swap the barrel! I put a 260 together this way a couple weeks back, and it has worked out great.
 
Very much like the idea of a Savage. There are several very nice options. Two different wood ones that match my .22lr Mark Ii gxp. Which I love. Also like that accustock in the scout model and the precision carbine. Even the axis looks nice but people keep typing that it's a "300 yd " max rifle rather than a 500 yd nor any durther. Not sure if that's true or even relevant but I read it alot n

Ive seen some browning a-bolts that look beautiful and I hear they're awesome. Always had a thing for those Tikkas and I hear Rem 700 is the classic mark of excellent rifle-ry
 
You're talkin to completely different animals. Why not just compare a .22LR to a 12ga? First you need to figure out what your main use will be and go from there. For punching paper out to 300-400 yards (more with the right gun and shooter) a .223 will do everything a .308 will do. Beyond that a .308 has some advantages. Once you figure out what you want to do comeback and ask for opinions on a reasonable comparison. Sounds to me like you just pulled 2 completely different cartridges outta thin air for your choices.

LK
 
the expensive two rifle solution

It broke my heart to sell my 39A Marlin .22 rimfire I bought in 1969. So I wanted a lever action hunting rifle. Hmmmm. A .308 Browning BLR? But I figured I wouldn't practice with this to become proficient - expense. So I first bought it in .223. Same stock, drop at comb, etc. Same pull. Same everything. I can spend all summer shooting this thing. If I like it and learn to use it proficiently, I might buy the .308.
I know it's expensive, and I haven't figured out the ammo costs - but it's one solution.
 
Whats your idea of long range? Thats the real question. 400m? 800m? 1000m+? They use 5.56 and .308 in F class 1000 yard matches....true its highly modified and very expensive rifles, but both rounds are capable of punching paper out that far. Really, if you want a dedicated long range rifle, you might be better served with a different caliber. .243 (6mm) and .260 (6.5mm) are both all the rage in F class and other long range matches. The 6.5mm's have the same ballistics as a .300 win mag with much less recoil. At the other end of the spectrum a .338 lapua has both range and power at 1500m+....

I have a savage 10 long range predator hunter 1-max in 6.5mm creedmoor. With factory ammo it is capable of 1/2" groups. I bought it because I wanted a long range rifle; and after doing the math it would have been more expensive to try and upgrade my weatherby .308 with the features I wanted than to buy a new rifle. Even after rebuilding the rifle I'd of been left with the restrictions of the cartridge.

So what do you really want in a rifle?
 
If you are new to precision rifle shooting, I would start with the 223. My reasoning is:
1. you will not have to deal with recoil. Granted 308 is relative mild in a heavy barrelled target rifle like the Ruger M77T. Scoped with a bipod mine weighs in at 13.5 pounds. Felt recoil is about like my 22 Marlin.
2. It is less expensive to shoot 223 vs 308.
3. Once you have mastered the fundamentals with the 223, you will have an excuse to purchase a 308 or some other big bore to go after the longer ranges.
4. My favorite long range rifle is a Model 70 338 win mag. Due to injuries I am no longer able to shoot this rifle.

You might check the threads on competitive shooting in this forum.

Good luck. Keep us apprised of your progress.
 
If you already have a Bushmaster, I'd just buy another upper for it set up for target shooting rather than a separate bolt action rifle in 223. You'll end up with a rifle that is just as accurate as a quality bolt gun for less money.

At a later time I'd add a 308 or some other bolt rifle if you feel the need. The 223 will still serve it's role as a HD rifle, target rifle, and hunting rifle for anmals up to deer. As far as punching holes in paper the 308 doesn't offer you any real advantages over the 223. It is a more versatile round and a better choice if hunting is a possibility.
 
I found a really big difference between shooting a bolt action .223 and shooting an AR for accuracy.

First, to shoot a bolt rifle accurately you have to be prepared to learn to get into the same position every time you get behind it. Some people have problems with charging with the bolt without moving their position.
In any case, most bolt guns in the .223 and .308 calibers don't load more than 5 rounds so no matter how good you get with bolt control, you will have to reset at least once every 5 rounds.

Second, a bolt rifle potentially has more inherent accuracy because the bolt is locked until you unlock it. I haven't had to work as hard tuning really accurate loads for a bolt .223 as I did with an AR. The semi-auto adds too many variables to the tuning equation. Third, there are fewer limits on seating depth with a bolt action rifle so you can take advantage of experimenting with moving the bullet closer to or further from the rifling without some of the restrictions of a semi-automatic magazine and feeding problems. I always seem to be limited by the depth of the magazine with the semi and not so much with the bolt action.

I have been shooting both calibers in law enforcement Savage model 10s bolt actions. They both shot great right out of the box.
I actually started with the .308 because, like you, I always wanted one.
They are incredibly easy to load for and I think my reloading interests were actually increased by starting with the .308. You see progress almost immediately and I learned most of my tuning tricks with the .308.

For range work, the Law Enforcement Savages have heavy barrels so there isn't as much waiting for barrels to cool. But from a direct comparison, the .223 doesn't heat up as fast as a .308 because it fires about 1/2 the powder per charge. The .223 has a 1:9 twist barrel and the .308 has a 1:10 twist.

The .223 is slightly more accurate - probably because the recoil is somewhat lighter, but the .308 is a great shooting rifle also.
If you hand load, the .223 costs about 18 to 20 cents less per round to reload assuming you are using premium bullets and cartridges.
But I have been reloading .308 rounds for around 48 cents each with some variation based upon powder, bullet weight and some of the esoteric premium bullets that seem to shoot so great.

Yesterday at the range, I shot 18 groups with the .223 at 100 yards with Berger 55 grain match bullets with three different loads from 3250 to 3350 fps velocity range. The 18 groups averaged 0.408 for all groups and the best load averaged 0.333 for 6 groups.
That isn't the best load average for that particular rifle, but it is in the top 3.

The .308 shoots well with its favorite loads also but it's best load shot to an average of 0.396 with Nosler Custom Competition 168 grain bullets. It also shoots 150 and 168 grain Sierra Match Kings very accurately. The .308 has a tactical 8-25x56mm scope with 35mm tube. The .223 has a 36x Weaver T36. That might account for some of the difference in accuracy but I don't think so. I think the .223 is just easier to shoot accurately.

Savages just shoot great as far as I am concerned. All I have ever done was to set the accu-triggers for my rifles to 2.0 lbs (Savage factor settings were around 2 lbs 11 oz. Everything else is just as they came from the factory.
 
Hmmm

I always look at things from a prospective of usefulness, and I've never seen a gun that wouldn't kill a sheet of paper instantly. For target work and small game the .223 is a good choice. For target work and anything up to a moose, a .308 is a good choice, although a little more expensive.
 
Or there is the .308s little brother the Remington 260... assuming you reload. .308 cartridge necked down to .264. This cartridge will reach out to a 1,000 yards with less recoil and great wind bucking capacity. BUT, expensive to shoot if you don't reload!! My preferred round when you have to reach out and touch something...

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