Could have gone real bad

G

garryc

New member
Last night, on my way home from work, I stopped at a local convenience store to get some smokes. I was in uniform. After I got out of the car I saw a group of 5 guys walk out of the narrow alley next to the store. One of them calls out to me and says," Hey C/O (garryc), you all big and bad out on the street <epithet>! I recognized the one talking as a former inmate.

I was closer to the door at that point so I went inside. I pulled out my cell and called the cops. They showed up 5 minutes later. The guys saw them coming and split back into the alley. Had the guys intercepted me before I got into the store, or followed me in, I would have been in for a fight. I was unarmed.

The problem is that I cannot be armed when going to or from work. Having a firearm on the grounds of a state correctional facility is a felony in Ohio. Even if it is locked in your car. This is the third time I've had a confrontation off duty. On one occasion I was driving home from work. A white car started pacing me in the other lane. When we stopped at a light they flashed a pistol at me. I've been told that certain higher up people have permission to keep a locked weapon in there cars for just this kind of thing, of course those are all high administration people like Deputy Wardens and department heads. The people that count.
 
Yeah but you LEO and CO types don't face any greater threat than the rest of us:rolleyes: (I think that's the sarcasm smilie)


Can you at least carry pepper spray or a club

Would a black powder revolver be a way around the law
I lived in Va in the army when I was 19, that was how we got around being unarmed targets in Newport News

I was never called on it so I don't know if it was a valid dodge or just an urban myth that I got lucky on
 
Garryc, . . . I faced a similar "situation" with my employer all those years I did not have a CCW, . . . and worked 2nd or 3rd shift.

My "solution" was simple, . . . I made it a habit to only buy goods and services on my way in on 2nd or out on 3rd. At least then, . . . there were more people around, . . . must scuzzballs were either sleeping, on hangover, or otherwise not out and about at those times.

Stopping after 2nd or before 3rd (basically the midnite hour) was something I conditioned myself not to do except in dire emergency. Obviously, . . . it worked for me, . . . as I am still here.

May God bless,
Dwight

PS: Good thinking getting inside and on the cell right away. Probably seeing you on the cell had as much to do with your safety as the boys in blue cruising in did.
 
I can imagine that inmates do recognize CO's/LEO's after seeing them so much. And they have all the time in the world in lock-up to determine who's fault it is that they are incarcerated and that might make them angry.

I think you handled it well. Smart thinking.
 
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Any possibility of being able to change out of uniform before leaving the shop? Also, tinted windows might keep you hidden from scumbag view as well.
 
C.O. off duty

You handled things well. How often are employer's cars searched? Aren't C.O.s covered under Act 218 in Ohio? I would try not to stop on the way home anymore.
 
Come work for me in AZ, we have statuatory CCW. Open carry is also legal. We also have a system to carry to and from, and safe lockable storage at the Complex, only key is in your posession. My CZ PO1 rides with me every day to and from work, open in good looking leather, with double mag pouch. I have been made stopping for cigaretteson the way home, and they smile, nod, and move on.
OK, as a supervisor, I would have to say, check your policies on wearing of the uniform. Ours forbids wearing any part of the uniform off duty, and discourages shopping in uniform going to and from work. Doesn't outlaw it, just discourages it. I do it occaisionally, if I know the area. But, if you have an area to change, or simply go to what we laughingly call the "drinking uniform", (uniform trousers, white t-shirt, uniform shirt in trunk), that will cut down on recognition, or carrying a spare shirt in the trunk, a button up flannel or such, will also help.
Stop at stores in good neighborhoods, if you can, or shop enough in civvies so no need to hit the store.
Tshadow6, the consensus is MOST C/Os are NOT covered under the Law Enforcement Safety Act of 2004, due to the fact most C/Os do NOT have general arrest powers. Those agencies that have POST certified Peace Officer training qualify under HR218. We are limited POST, and do not. No biggie, have CCW written in law for C/Os covers that, and our shall-issue CCW is pretty easy to get, too.
But in any case...we pay for experiance too, and we have great gun laws.:cool: C'mon down.

http://adcprisoninfo.az.gov/
 
A few years ago, I provided some contract services at a maximum security prison, and you definitely speak the truth of the situation. I suggest that you either do as I did - move to another line of work, or at least take up armorman on his offer. Your life is worth more than you're being paid, especially when your employer doesn't allow you to have full right of survival.
I guess this is as good a time as any to give up an apology that I'm sure the folks I worked with didn't know they had coming. I had anticipated working with people that would be somehow rougher and maybe a bit meaner than I would have preferred. I figured all those folks must be "different" than the rest of us to do such distasteful work. I was wrong, wrong, wrong. I have never met or worked with better folks than the folks at the Allred Unit in Texas. They were different...more guts and more level headed than most. Thanks for the attitude tuneup, and the decency and concern you all showed when I was there. (internal affairs can still bite my ass, though)

twb
 
If it were me..........I'd have a gun in the car...regardless of what the "rules" say. Obviously you've had encounters that warrant breaking the rules, so start putting your own safety first.
 
As much of a pain in the butt that it is, if I were in your situation I would go straight home and arm myself immediately after work before making any stops.
 
Avoid The Situation

I don't go to convenience marts anymore, regardless of the time of day. I stock up on sodas, snacks, etc. at the supermarket. Same with ATM's. If I need cash I get cash back at the Grocery store.
 
The one I stopped at was a little place just around the corner from my house. This is normally a quiet little town. I've stopped there thousands of times with no incidents other than getting a few ladies phone numbers. That just goes to show you that stuff can happen anywhere.

What I'll have to do is start stopping at the place just up the road from the prison. With three prisons doing shift change at the same time there is always several fellow C/O's in the store. Usually there is an Ohio State Patrol or county sheriffs car in the parking lot, though that is less now that the crispy cream case has been removed.;) I'll just have to pay $.75 more on three packs.

As far as moving, I'd be giving up 15 yrs toward retirement (another 15 to go) And I'd have to make at least the $21.00hr I'm making now. Then I'd have to replace the $8,000 I usually make for under the table construction jobs ( I got a feeling that I would not be able to compete with the illegals). Plus my wife would have to get a job in her field and make $40,000. At 48 yrs old I guess I'm just going to have to ride it out here.
 
You need to be DOCUMENTING off-duty encounters like this.

As a Correctional Officer you should've learned a long time ago that the pen is your mightiest sword. I had a similar encounter, but it involved a shotgun in the BG's hands, back when I was a C.O. on my way home from work. At that time C.O.'s couldn't "carry" to and from work in my state.

Let's just say that the law is changed now. ;) Also, Off-Duty you need to not be stopping anywhere. Drive to work, drive home. Gas, milk and cigarrettes should all be bought prior to putting on the uniform, or after taking it off.


Good luck and stay safe.
Biker
 
Let me tell you how concerned the state is with our safety. We have a random drug test policy. On third shift the test is (or was) taken at a hospital right down in the "Hood' in Cleveland. The officer would be sent alone, in a state vehicle and unarmed. Now that's some bullchitt
 
Off duty confrontations with prior "customers" are a real concern for all involved in the criminal justice system. I know first hand, and the .38 caliber bullet hole through my kitchen window proves it :mad:.

Biker's right, Garry. But you need to take it farther than that... a lot farther.

Do Ohio corrections officers have a statewide union? If so, you need to get them involved.

Not only should you document your own incidents, you should poll C.O.'s statewide for similar incidents (tall order, I know). When you've done that, contact your Ohio House Rep. and schedule a sit-down with him, and have several of your concerned co-workers go with you.

Explain the situation, present the documentation, and request that he draft and sponsor legislation to change the law.

It's going to take time, maybe several years, but it can be done. I know, I've done it. Working with my state rep. a few years back, I got an insane law dealing with our pension and mandatory buy-back of layoff time changed.

You've got 15 years to make it so; better get started buddy ;).
 
As a former CO (Soledad State Correctional Facility) I had some of the same experiences that you relate. I joined the Police Dept. and then I could carry. A piece of advice, never wear your uniform outside the joint. Take off the shirt and put it in the trunk, keep a civvy shirt there. If the trousers are distinctive, change before you get out of the car, or go home first before shopping.:eek:

All of these things are a pain in the ---, but it is common sense. You deal with bad folks everyday. You know how fast something can go down. These people don't care about you or anybody else. Don't let them control your life. Take precautions just like you do inside.:cool:

A thought, how about a small handgun safe welded or bolted in the trunk? Out of sight and easily concealed?;)
 
My brother is a CO at a city jail here in OH and has the same complaints. I work for a school district and feel I'd probably need it there more than just about anywhere else I spend any amount of time. That's also a felony if I'm not mistaken. Is it like that in other states?
 
I'm wondering if you have reported the "contact" to the ex-con's Probation Officer and your Internal Affairs unit. Most Dept's have regulations prohibiting contact between C/Os & ec-cons & vice-versa.

#1 - CYA. #2 - if he's still on paper he might get the "come to Jesus" talk from his PO, r it might be bad enough to revoke his paper.

Remember, while thinking outside the box it's good to think inside as well.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
I'm wondering if you have reported the "contact" to the ex-con's Probation Officer and your Internal Affairs unit. Most Dept's have regulations prohibiting contact between C/Os & ec-cons & vice-versa.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what his name is, nor did I recognize his face. Working at a facility with 1600 inmates, I can't know them all. But with 178 officers they sure can know us. I did file an incident report on it.

The odds of him being on paper is small. In Ohio we have this stupid "Truth in sentencing" law. A con does a flat sentence and is released with little or no post release control. He never see's a parole board nor does he have a parole officer. Under the law the sentences where greatly reduced.
 
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