could .308 rounds be fired in a 30-06 rifle?

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Ran the measurements:

M118 (GI 7.62 unfired) -- 0.448" at the shoulder
Resz'd Winchester 30-06 -- 0.446" at the same spot on the case wall
Fired Winchester 30-06 -- 0.447" at the same spot on the case wall

So, yup, the 308Win is very (very) slightly larger at the shoulder than the (Model-70) `06 is at that same registration point. But it seems not to matter.

That said, I took a resized 308 case (0.447" @ shoulder) and let the bolt go home on it in the Garand. It pushed the case right into the chamber without a squeak. The extractor did not, however, engage the rim which means it went in well past the registration point and should have jammed. Instead a cleaning rod--pushed very lightly -- cleared the case.

I also loaded that 308 case into a 2-round clip and let the bolt go home. Same result: no pick up on the rim and a cleaning rod cleared the case.

Maybe if I loaded up a full clip to really keep some follower tension and used loaded rounds to maximize intertia I might get the extractor to engage.....

But in the words of Dirty Harry, "...Do you feel lucky, punk?"

Nope. :eek:
 
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"Unless bushing are pressure formed into a grooved chamber, or chill/interference fit, most will come out."
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How true that is.

A couple of years ago at the US Navy Competitive Shooters Reunion, I and a couple of others were talking with one of the 'smiths who installed those inserts in the early '60's. He said that one needed a mallet and rod to drive some of those inserts into chamber necks; those were very tight fitting inserts. None of those came out.
 
Can a blind man drive a car,Yes but I wouldn't want to be seated next to him.Some things you just shouldn't do.
 
i wouldnt

the two cartridges are similar enough where the 308 would probably chamber, but shooting it is a great way to lose a nice rifle. (not to mention an eye and a hand)
 
Perhaps I've giving government designers too much credit…

It seems to me, when developing the new cartridge, they must have considered the ramifications of firing it an old gun. I'd like to think, if it was hazardous, then they would have made the new case too large for the old .30-'06 chambers. As I recall, we were told, new powders made .30-'60 performance possible from a shorted case. The shorter cases meant you could hump more ammo. They made it sound about as complicated as shooting a .22L in a .22LR chamber.
 
zippy13 comments:
Perhaps I've giving government designers too much credit…
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Don't give them any credit.

It was a team of Remington ballistic engineers (headed by Mike Walker; benchrest champ and accuracy guru) who reshaped the .300 Savage case into the 7.62x51mm NATO round. And Winchester, after getting the first government contract to produce several thousand rounds if it, tooled up another production line making the commercial version; the .308 Winchester.
 
Government could care less about liability, that's a civie issue ala the 38 special and the 357 magnum.

Govment just uses what is there, so why change things like rim size and bore when you can reuse the stuff for the 7.62.

And no I do not think its a good idea and fail to understand why you would want to. either useless or ok or possible issue and not and zero gained. Must be an American thing, we just have to screw with stuff for the sake of screwing with it. Guess I am too pragmatic to mess with useless things (or don't have the time, speaking of which.....)

I managed to get some GAP 45 into my 45 acp (*&^% did not even know there was something called 45 GAP, another reason to curse Gaston G). Took me two or three rounds to figure out the malfunctions were something wrong.

I count myself very lucky I was ok and the barrel and gun were ok (more me than it, I can buy another gun, I can't buy parts of me).
 
My Brother in law has the Remington 742 in .243, .308 and 30-06. One day when they were hosting a family get together, he grabbed what he thought to be the 308 and a handful of rounds and walked out to the range behind his house to check the scope in preparation for hunting season. Several of us were sitting on the back porch and we heard a very unusually loud BOOM, followed by about 2 more BOOM, BOOM. Sounded like a cannon going off. After several minutes he came walking back, shaking his head and showed us the .308 casings that had straight walls like the picture in post #30. He said, I thought something didn't sound right so I looked at the cartridges and realized I had grabbed the 30-06 and was shooting .308 rounds through it. No damage to the gun or shooter, no problem what so ever chambering, firing or ejecting. Just a very loud noise and a straight walled case.

Not really sure of the factors that allowed it to happen but, it seems to me that since both of the rounds are .470 at the base and have a slight taper, that would be enough to hold the round in place well enough for the firing pin to detonate the primer. Just a guess.
 
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slappy comments:
Not really sure of the factors that allowed it to happen but, it seems to me that since both of the rounds are .470 at the base and have a slight taper, that would be enough to hold the round in place well enough for the firing pin to detonate the primer. Just a guess.
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If you check SAAMI specs for the chamber and shoulder diameters for both rounds, you'll see the .308 case typically binds up in a .30-06 chamber as it's shoulder diameter is a bit larger than the .30-06 chamber at that point relative to the bolt face. Extracting a live .308 round from a .30-06 chamber typically reveals the scratches on its body right at the shoulder where it stuck in the chamber.

There's been folks who shot twenty 7.62 NATO rounds in 30 caliber Garand chambers rapid fire, two strings of 10 shots in 60 seconds. 2 shots followed by a clip full of 8, then doing it again. No problems at all.
 
I know that you can chamber a 308 and fire them in a 270 and 280 as it has happened on a few occasions at the range/gun club I am a member of. I am pretty sure every time it happened the bullet cleared the bore but the barrel and action was stuffed.
 
Companies did sell an adapter that you were supposed to put in the throat of the chamber, and essentially, the .308 round would then headspace on that sleeve.

I don't know how well they worked, or what other issues were involved. I doubt that they are available now.

Back when, there was also an adapter made to use 30 carbine rounds in a 30.06. it wsa essentially a steel chamber for the carbine cartridge shaped to fit the chamber of an 06, and it was to be ejected and reloaded single shot. Don't recall seeing them in forever, either
 
As has been mentioned, the .308 case is slightly larger in diameter at the shoulder than the .30-06 case is at the same point on its body. This means that the .308 should wedge in the chamber, and likely fire (even without a claw extractor holding it in place).

Howe'er, this only works when both the chamber AND the ammo are perfectly in spec. And when this does happen, the .308 case seals the chamber, so there is no dangerous gas release, the .308 case just straightens out.

If the specs are far enough out,however, it could fail to fire, or worse, fire and fail to seal the chamber, and that would be ...bad.

Other than in the dark, or maybe the stress of combat, being shot at, etc.. I have never been able to understand how anyone could not know what ammo you are shooting. I mean, don't you even LOOK at the ammo before loading tghe gun? I do. Always.
 
Other than in the dark, or maybe the stress of combat, being shot at, etc.. I have never been able to understand how anyone could not know what ammo you are shooting. I mean, don't you even LOOK at the ammo before loading tghe gun? I do. Always.
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You obviously haven't met my brother in law. He has a masters degree in wildlife biology, is an avid hunter, has a very large firearms collection, he's even a real good sort of guy but he is a little bit scatter brained.
 
You obviously haven't met my brother in law. He has a masters degree in wildlife biology, is an avid hunter, has a very large firearms collection, he's even a real good sort of guy but he is a little bit scatter brained.
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I worked with a couple of guys who elk hunted every few years. one of them and I were talking about it once, and he told me this story about the other guy. he loaned ammo to another member of the party, the other member paid him back with a new box of the wrong cartridge. He fired a round that blew out his action, and left his right cheek badly scarred. I believe that it was a 7mm magnum rifle, and lord only knows what went wrong in the substitution.

This guy was an electrical engineer. :rolleyes:
 
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