You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Correlation of weight to longevity in small guns. Do you consider this?
- Thread starter Pond James Pond
- Start date
Pond, James Pond "Am I being unrealistic about what I should expect any pocket/snub gun to be capable of? "
In terms of durability or power?
Here is some chrono data I've collected over time (average for 5 shots)
In ascending order of power:
Ruger LCP: 90 gr. Hydra-Shok @ 878 fps / 154# KE
Ruger LCP: 95 gr. Ranger T @ 876 fps / 162# KE (This is a hot 380 load)
S&W 442 (Mag-Na-Ported) Winchester 110 Silvertip @ 821 fps / 165# KE
S&W 442 (Mag-Na-Ported) Winchester PDX 130 gr. +P @ 848 fps/ 207# KE
The 380 achieved 78-93% of the power produced by the ported 38 snub depending on load.
Glock 26: Winchester Ranger T 124 gr. +P @ 1,162 fps / 372# KE
Glock 27: Winchester Ranger T 165 gr. @ 1,071 fps / 420# KE
Glock 33: Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE
The Glock 27 and 33 are capable of delivering over double the power (KE) of the 38 snub even when it's loaded with +P.
However, there is a compromise in size and power that is pocket carry material.
I had a Kahr PM9, probably should have kept it; I had likely fired over 500 rounds through it (mostly +P) which doesn't qualify as long term durable, but anyway...
Kahr PM9 with the hottest loads I chronographed:
Winchester Ranger T 124 gr. +P @ 1,094 fps / 329# KE
Federal 115 gr. +P+ @ 1,149 fps / 337# KE
Cor-Bon 115 gr. +P @ 1,215 fps / 377# KE
The PM9 may or may not have long term durability, but it is pocketable and can deliver over 300# KE with the right load.
In terms of durability or power?
Here is some chrono data I've collected over time (average for 5 shots)
In ascending order of power:
Ruger LCP: 90 gr. Hydra-Shok @ 878 fps / 154# KE
Ruger LCP: 95 gr. Ranger T @ 876 fps / 162# KE (This is a hot 380 load)
S&W 442 (Mag-Na-Ported) Winchester 110 Silvertip @ 821 fps / 165# KE
S&W 442 (Mag-Na-Ported) Winchester PDX 130 gr. +P @ 848 fps/ 207# KE
The 380 achieved 78-93% of the power produced by the ported 38 snub depending on load.
Glock 26: Winchester Ranger T 124 gr. +P @ 1,162 fps / 372# KE
Glock 27: Winchester Ranger T 165 gr. @ 1,071 fps / 420# KE
Glock 33: Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE
The Glock 27 and 33 are capable of delivering over double the power (KE) of the 38 snub even when it's loaded with +P.
However, there is a compromise in size and power that is pocket carry material.
I had a Kahr PM9, probably should have kept it; I had likely fired over 500 rounds through it (mostly +P) which doesn't qualify as long term durable, but anyway...
Kahr PM9 with the hottest loads I chronographed:
Winchester Ranger T 124 gr. +P @ 1,094 fps / 329# KE
Federal 115 gr. +P+ @ 1,149 fps / 337# KE
Cor-Bon 115 gr. +P @ 1,215 fps / 377# KE
The PM9 may or may not have long term durability, but it is pocketable and can deliver over 300# KE with the right load.
I'd buy the used Taurus 85 for $230 used all day long over paying $900 for a new Ruger LCR. If it locks up tight it should be good to go. A little heavy for pocket carry but it will work there. It will be a lot easier on you with the recoil. $670 saved over the LCR will buy years worth of ammo or another used gun. Used is good as long as they check out ok. Good Luck.
Pond James Pond
New member
$670 saved ... will buy years worth of ammo or another used gun.
That is true. I guess I would know pretty soon if it was a hunk of junk, or a keeper after a few visits to the range!!
In terms of durability or power?
I was thinking more in terms of durability, but the performance comparisons make for interesting reading. Thanx
I would rather trust my life to a proven, high mileage, well maintained, good quality gun than a brand new one with a few hundred rounds through it.
That is a good way of thinking about it, regardless which gun you get! I just have to make sure I meet that "quality gun" criterion!
There is almost no correlation of weight to longevity in handguns.
What is way more important is the design and actual construction of the handgun.
Glocks are not very heavy handguns abut they are brutally reliable,long life handguns.
There are now super light revolvers coming from Smith,Ruger and Taurus that could all last many decades because of the smart design and incorporation of wear zone inserts near the forcing cone and the generous use of the weight saving metals and plastics around the rest of the handguns.
I would think that among the heaviest handguns you could buy would be the super cheap price Hi Points but I don't think you could see them last through thirty thousand rounds but then again,Hi Points are designed to put a cheap self defense weapon into the hands of people who simply cannot afford anything else.
Those purchasers will likely never put a thousand rounds through their Hi Points,much less thirty thousand.
How ever,in subcompact handguns,there does seem to be a growing issue with those small semi auto's that shoot the 40 Smith round.
I would not buy a subcompact handgun smaller then a Smith M&Pc series,or Glock series size subcompact (or similar frame sized handgun)to fire that round.
For other smaller sub compact semi's I would go not larger then the 9mm in those handguns.
What is way more important is the design and actual construction of the handgun.
Glocks are not very heavy handguns abut they are brutally reliable,long life handguns.
There are now super light revolvers coming from Smith,Ruger and Taurus that could all last many decades because of the smart design and incorporation of wear zone inserts near the forcing cone and the generous use of the weight saving metals and plastics around the rest of the handguns.
I would think that among the heaviest handguns you could buy would be the super cheap price Hi Points but I don't think you could see them last through thirty thousand rounds but then again,Hi Points are designed to put a cheap self defense weapon into the hands of people who simply cannot afford anything else.
Those purchasers will likely never put a thousand rounds through their Hi Points,much less thirty thousand.
How ever,in subcompact handguns,there does seem to be a growing issue with those small semi auto's that shoot the 40 Smith round.
I would not buy a subcompact handgun smaller then a Smith M&Pc series,or Glock series size subcompact (or similar frame sized handgun)to fire that round.
For other smaller sub compact semi's I would go not larger then the 9mm in those handguns.
I agree with you. I wish I had the time, money and ammo to be at the range 3 or more times a week or live in the country where I could shoot off my front porch.I would like, just once, to be able to shoot a gun enough to worry about wearing it out.
Man, I would BRAG about it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"There is almost no correlation of weight to longevity in handguns."
Agreed. I think a more important correlation regarding longevity in handguns is the overall construction vs. the operating pressure of the round the gun fires.
Higher pressure rounds are going to do more to age a gun than any other factor.
Years ago when Charter Arms brought out their .44 Special Bulldog, many predicted that the gun wouldn't last because the cartridge was "too big" for such a small gun.
What they failed to take into account was that the .44 Special has a pretty low operating pressure, so the Bulldogs, even with their lightweight construction, have done very well over the years in withstanding a lot of shooting.
Agreed. I think a more important correlation regarding longevity in handguns is the overall construction vs. the operating pressure of the round the gun fires.
Higher pressure rounds are going to do more to age a gun than any other factor.
Years ago when Charter Arms brought out their .44 Special Bulldog, many predicted that the gun wouldn't last because the cartridge was "too big" for such a small gun.
What they failed to take into account was that the .44 Special has a pretty low operating pressure, so the Bulldogs, even with their lightweight construction, have done very well over the years in withstanding a lot of shooting.
Rifleman 173
New member
What helps with recoil the best is a longer barrel. That was why, for many years, standard police pistols and revolvers had the 4 inch barrels on them instead of the shorter snub nosed variants. Later on, police also began to experiment with different charges of propellant (gunpowder) in reference to recoil too. So, by using the right load in your cartridge and using a longer length barrel you can come up with some very easy to shoot or comfortable loads for your use. The weight of the human body is not as important to control of a pistol/recoil as are other circumstances. A person with a strong upper body can also control firearms better - to a point. Like anything else, if you take something to excess, problems can develop. Body builders will often have trouble shooting when trying to use the Weaver stance because the muscles in their backs will fight each other and, if the position is held too long, spasms will occur. So all things considered, to find the best pistol for you, I would suggest that you work with a good counselor who has lots of experience as either an NRA instructor or who has been a police range officer for a medium or larger size department for a number of years.
Obambulate
New member
I go for steel all the way. But I wouldn't worry about wearing out an alloy gun if I had one. If I like shooting it enough to wear it out, I'd just send it in for repair or replacement.