Cor-Bon .45ACP Expansion Pix...You decide!

H

HKMark23

New member
These three rounds were recovered from wet phone books after being fired from an HK USP 45 at aprox. 7 yards.

I removed all the covers & "odd stuff" and bound the books in 30" lengths before soaking them in water for 48 hours. I removed the books from the water covered with 2 "T shirts" (4 layers) and fired one round into each stack.


I had a total of ten stacks so I was able to fire 2 rounds of each weight into its own stack. I found that they seemed to be consistant as far as expansion, weight, penetration, and cavity.

Into the extra stack I shot a 230gr FMJ as a comparison; The penetration was 25" with only about a 2" cavity.

With the two lighter rounds alot of the unrecovered weight was in the form of fragments that actually exited the stack thru the sides, top, and bottom.
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By the way the HK USP 45 has a barrel lenght of 4.41".

Cor-Bon rates as follows:
165gr 1250fps/573ft lbs
200gr 1050fps/490ft lbs
230gr 950fps/461ft lbs



[This message has been edited by HKMark23 (edited April 30, 2000).]
 
Hello. Excellent photography. I suspect that for extreme overpenetration concerns, the 165 or 200 gr +Ps would be the thing; I'd go with the 200 gr bullets. Plus P in 230 gr is a bit much for rapid, accurate, repeat shots, but it would make a peach of a small game load. Best.
 
I'd like to hear what the recovered diameters were... I like these kind of posts. Real world evidence rather than guesswork.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Real world evidence rather than guesswork.[/quote]

Not to discredit the testing or results, but they only represent possible projectile performance in the event that you are attacked straight on by a 30" stack of wet phone books wearing two t-shirts.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading any and all bullet testing like HKMark23 has reported, but how "real world" is it when it comes to self defense effectiveness against a human target?

Great data collection and photography HKMark3. Give us more. Some phonebook tests using .357SIG should be quite interesting. I started a new personal website the other day and I plan to include some test results as soon as I find the time to do the tests I wanna do.



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R6...aka...Chris
 
Tests like these are good for compairing loads... these do not indicate what the results would be after the application of a defensive weapons purpose.
 
Ummmmm, maybe just me, but phone books or not, those pics are impressive, and I would hate to be on the receiving end of any .45, especially COR-BONS.
 
Would'nt you know it...on the way home from work today I was jumped by a gang of soggy yellow pages!!!!!!

In fact my main purpose was to compair different weights and also to see if cloth would affect expansion. And since I did'nt find anyone willing to let me shoot them...!

Where I work some old phone books had been left out side and I noticed they absorbed water like crazy. And after sitting in water for a day they had a thick slimey consistancy similar to human tissue (im a paramedic).

Anyway it was'nt scientific, but very interesting and revealing to myself. I'm sold on the 165gr, incredable cavity and surrounding damage.

As far as diameters here goes:
165gr/.69"
200gr/.59"
230gr/.75"

But keep in mind that the two lighter rounds fully expanded to an unknown diameter before they started to seperate. The 230gr almost completely seperated as well, only being held in place by the tiny edge on the right in photo.

Also it's hard to see in the photo but if you look at the jacket of the 230gr, you can see the petals were twisted by the rotation of the round as it impacted the target (looks really cool inperson).

Anyway thanks for all the comments, I'm hopeing to do some tests with other items including auto glass. So stay tuned!

Almost forgot...I dont have a chronograph but I placed Cor-Bons velocity data in the original post, I dont know what barrel length they use.

[This message has been edited by HKMark23 (edited May 01, 2000).]
 
Does anybody know where you can get the balistic gelatin that they are always using in the gunrags? It would be interesting to get hold of some of this for similar experiments. Maybe add some cow bones and some layers of clothing to the outside. Just a thought.
 
I read in a post awhile back that there is only one company that makes the stuff and that it's VERY expensive. Also that unless your affiliated with an organization, gun mag, police dept, laboritory, etc they pretty much ignore you. Unknown if true.
 
I find it very interesting that all the
Cor-bon bullets lost their jacket and broke up to some degree. It would be intresting to test other bullet types. I have read that Speer Gold dot bullets do a much better job of not losing their jackets and not fragmenting.

Thanks for the test results!!
 
I find it very interesting that all the
Cor-bon bullets lost their jacket and broke up to some degree. It would be intresting to test other bullet types. I have read that Speer Gold dot bullets do a much better job of not losing their jackets and not fragmenting.

Thanks for the test results!!
 
Does Hydra-Shok loose its jacket? Anyone like Triton JHP(+P)?

The other thing I don't like about Cor-bon is that they have no data on velocities other then muzzle velocity and no BC. I emailed them and they confirmed that they had no data like that because it is for "selfdefense". I wonder if Cor-bon is over rated?

Shooting phonebooks is great but I need other data too. Going by data only (mass, BC, and velocity) I think Triton JHP(+P) look really good. Winchester SXT data looks good but it is a little slow.

Shok
 
I'd like to see pics of the internals of your gun before and after shooting cor-bon. That stuff is loaded very hot and can do things like dent or bend guide rods, crack slides and ventilate barrels. Not something i like in a defensive round. I'll grant you the stuff seemed accurate as hell, but I'd favor a standard pressure load over one that can damage my gun as well as an advesary.

Dr.Rob

[This message has been edited by Dr.Rob (edited May 02, 2000).]
 
The 230-gr. bullet is the ONLY one that I would consider carrying. The others don't penetrate deeply enough to ensure that you can get a shot through to the vitals in any but a full frontal aspect, and that's not a very good thing to have to bank on.

Penetration is what you want, preferably with adequate expansion.

What you don't want, though, is expansion at the expense of penetration.

Penetration to vital areas is what stops someone. If you just give them what amounts to a nasty, deep flesh wound, you're now at a significant disadvantage.
 
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