Cops Under Investigation After Killing Man During Raid On Wrong House
- Thread starter Cpt. John Park
- Start date
- Status
I think the NRA,GOA,etc.. should get involved and buddy up with the NAACP on this one. What better way to broaden the membership demographic and put an end to the media stereotype of the dumb-redneck-NRA-member?
The NRA is, after all, a civil rights organization.
AHM1776- GOA,NRA,SAF...and I vote
The NRA is, after all, a civil rights organization.
AHM1776- GOA,NRA,SAF...and I vote
If I lived next door to a crack house I'd want to sleep with a sawed-off by my bed too! This poor elderly gent has probably gone thru hell living with drug dealers for neighbors. Now for his troubles he gets blown away by the cops at O'dark:30. CRASH... BLAMB.. BLAMB.. BLAMB.. "Freeze, Police!" -- Kernel
And as I'd asked in the thread in Gerenal on this matter.
How many times has this mistaken address thing happened at LEO homes?
I mean the whole enchilada, the wrong address, the death, the whole damn thing.
Can anyone answer this one. We hear all the time about how presumably an innocent is killed by some freakin mistake.
Remember last month, the 11 year old shot in the back, while lying on the floor, during a police exercise?? Shot in the back lying on the floor. Any reason to believe that that fella will see any Justice he sorely deserves?
How many times has this mistaken address thing happened at LEO homes?
I mean the whole enchilada, the wrong address, the death, the whole damn thing.
Can anyone answer this one. We hear all the time about how presumably an innocent is killed by some freakin mistake.
Remember last month, the 11 year old shot in the back, while lying on the floor, during a police exercise?? Shot in the back lying on the floor. Any reason to believe that that fella will see any Justice he sorely deserves?
I think we are all in agreement except for a few leo's that this crap has to stop.Wrong house and kill someone over a bag of pot?What the hell is this world comeing too and what is wrong with the leo's that can see no wrong in this?(See the closed thread on general).And how dare some one tell us that because we are not Leo's we can't tell right from wrong!!!!This wedge between law enforcement and civilians is getting wider and it has to stop.Leo's have to see that killing inocent people must stop and the ones that are doing it must pay the price as directed by law.Not like the Denver leo who got a misdemer charge out of a killing and says he is ready to eager to get back to work.Lots of remorse,right?
My RANT for today
PS and what the hell happened to manners when a LEO is talking to someone.Treating all like criminals realy earns respect too.
You only recieve what you have earned and respect is earned.
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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
My RANT for today
PS and what the hell happened to manners when a LEO is talking to someone.Treating all like criminals realy earns respect too.
You only recieve what you have earned and respect is earned.
------------------
Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
Phone conversation---
Hey Joe---Someone's peeped that youve got a load of dope in their how do you want me to handle.
Joe---Ralph thats likely that nosy next door neighbor of mine well teach that old snoot how things run around here just give your boys at the precint his address the floor plans are about the same anyway youll get a little extra with your usual take.
And sides Ralph theyd never question an officer with your service record.
Ralph---got it Joe leave it in the usual place for me.
Yep its totally hypothetical.....totally.
My actions are guided by law, set forth by legislators the GENERAL PUBLIC put into public office. No Knock warrants are sometimes needed. In the jurisdiction i work in i have never seen or heard of one used or even issued. But if the need arose for that type of entry, i would not hesitate to apply for one and use every resourse available to execute said warrant.
Does this make me a bad guy? Think what you will, i do my job to the best of my ability, working within the laws guidelines; i make no apologies for it. ----"
Sounds a lot like some german soldiers we once had on trial and some BATF agents that we once had on trial -(that was a dangerous baby I had to shoot it and Im allowed to use lethal force whenever faced with it-Ruby ridge paraphrase)
NIce to know were being taxed to keep such men on the streets and very very well armed and padded.
OH and I love that 'thats the price you pay for police protection'- line.
Im still looking for that police protection in my area but I never have to look for police theirs a cruiser on every major street corner.
Yet we still have the highest murder rate of any city in my state.
Maybe we need an officer on every street corner and arm them with m-16's instead of pistols to deal with all this pesky crime.
Hey it worked in Japan and they got rid of all those pesky civil rights that tripped them up from dealing with 'criminals' what
were those for anyway and all those wonderful
Japanese police operate within the confines of their laws to.
To protect and serve is a motto and oath at best an oath ya know like the one our congressmen and OUR president took to uphold the constitution and thats done us how much good???
YOU HAVE NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO POLICE PROTECTION
yeah but they keep telling us thats what their hear for and thats why they can randomly shoot people and beat them half to death and its our fault for electing the wrong person to office.
Oh well I too love a good democracy.
and they wont leave the force (now we know why they call it that) because worse ones will get in it and not only follow any order they get but abuse them too.Waitaminute I thought your job was to get rid of those abusing the LAW and that your doing your job to the best of the abillity!?!?!
Hold back their raise these people unite real quick and threaten to strike,knock off a few civillians that dared to pick up a gun in their OWN home and be at the wrong house and its YOUR POLICE or YOUR VOTE.
------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
Hey Joe---Someone's peeped that youve got a load of dope in their how do you want me to handle.
Joe---Ralph thats likely that nosy next door neighbor of mine well teach that old snoot how things run around here just give your boys at the precint his address the floor plans are about the same anyway youll get a little extra with your usual take.
And sides Ralph theyd never question an officer with your service record.
Ralph---got it Joe leave it in the usual place for me.
Yep its totally hypothetical.....totally.
My actions are guided by law, set forth by legislators the GENERAL PUBLIC put into public office. No Knock warrants are sometimes needed. In the jurisdiction i work in i have never seen or heard of one used or even issued. But if the need arose for that type of entry, i would not hesitate to apply for one and use every resourse available to execute said warrant.
Does this make me a bad guy? Think what you will, i do my job to the best of my ability, working within the laws guidelines; i make no apologies for it. ----"
Sounds a lot like some german soldiers we once had on trial and some BATF agents that we once had on trial -(that was a dangerous baby I had to shoot it and Im allowed to use lethal force whenever faced with it-Ruby ridge paraphrase)
NIce to know were being taxed to keep such men on the streets and very very well armed and padded.
OH and I love that 'thats the price you pay for police protection'- line.
Im still looking for that police protection in my area but I never have to look for police theirs a cruiser on every major street corner.
Yet we still have the highest murder rate of any city in my state.
Maybe we need an officer on every street corner and arm them with m-16's instead of pistols to deal with all this pesky crime.
Hey it worked in Japan and they got rid of all those pesky civil rights that tripped them up from dealing with 'criminals' what
were those for anyway and all those wonderful
Japanese police operate within the confines of their laws to.
To protect and serve is a motto and oath at best an oath ya know like the one our congressmen and OUR president took to uphold the constitution and thats done us how much good???
YOU HAVE NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO POLICE PROTECTION
yeah but they keep telling us thats what their hear for and thats why they can randomly shoot people and beat them half to death and its our fault for electing the wrong person to office.
Oh well I too love a good democracy.
and they wont leave the force (now we know why they call it that) because worse ones will get in it and not only follow any order they get but abuse them too.Waitaminute I thought your job was to get rid of those abusing the LAW and that your doing your job to the best of the abillity!?!?!
Hold back their raise these people unite real quick and threaten to strike,knock off a few civillians that dared to pick up a gun in their OWN home and be at the wrong house and its YOUR POLICE or YOUR VOTE.
------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
Jeff Thomas
New member
TheBluesMan, your initial comments above are right on the money.
I too would like to see the police unions becoming concerned about this crap. However, I strongly suspect that that won't happen until more LEO's suffer incarceration, injury and death from these incidents. Even though they suffer emotional distress, internal investigations and career derailments, it will probably take prison time and bodily injury before some of these folks understand the gravity of this problem. Sad to say.
Regards from AZ
I too would like to see the police unions becoming concerned about this crap. However, I strongly suspect that that won't happen until more LEO's suffer incarceration, injury and death from these incidents. Even though they suffer emotional distress, internal investigations and career derailments, it will probably take prison time and bodily injury before some of these folks understand the gravity of this problem. Sad to say.
Regards from AZ
Jeff Thomas
New member
gitarmac, I respectfully disagree.
Most of my trainers have been active or retired LEO's. I've met, and work with, many active and retired LEO's who strongly support the RKBA. CCW holders have saved cops lives, and they know it.
And, my family and I can sleep with relative peace because of the brave men and women who work our streets at night.
I've met anti-self defense LEO's, but most are administrators, and that lowliest of pond scum ... police chiefs. Rookies also tend to be a bit naive. But, the rank and file cops who know their business generally support the RKBA ... probably more so in the west than the east, and definitely more so in rural versus urban areas.
Nevertheless, I disagree with your conclusion.
For me, this debate is about dismal, murderous 'dynamic entry' policies that are usually justified by the War on Some Drugs. I can vehemently dislike the policy without painting LEO's as BG's.
Regards from AZ
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited October 08, 2000).]
Most of my trainers have been active or retired LEO's. I've met, and work with, many active and retired LEO's who strongly support the RKBA. CCW holders have saved cops lives, and they know it.
And, my family and I can sleep with relative peace because of the brave men and women who work our streets at night.
I've met anti-self defense LEO's, but most are administrators, and that lowliest of pond scum ... police chiefs. Rookies also tend to be a bit naive. But, the rank and file cops who know their business generally support the RKBA ... probably more so in the west than the east, and definitely more so in rural versus urban areas.
Nevertheless, I disagree with your conclusion.
For me, this debate is about dismal, murderous 'dynamic entry' policies that are usually justified by the War on Some Drugs. I can vehemently dislike the policy without painting LEO's as BG's.
Regards from AZ
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited October 08, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gitarmac:
I think ruger got it right. Fact is - cops don't want us to have guns either - it makes it harder and more dangerous for them to bust in innocent peoples doors and shoot them. [/quote]
The fact is you have no idea what you are talking about. You have been told in this forum and general discussion forum by LEOS and non-LEOS alike that what you are saying is untrue, but you continue to post that LEOS are as a whole against RKBA. One more time: THE AVERAGE LEO BELIEVES IN THE RKBA. Is it sinking in yet?
[This message has been edited by mrat (edited October 08, 2000).]
I think ruger got it right. Fact is - cops don't want us to have guns either - it makes it harder and more dangerous for them to bust in innocent peoples doors and shoot them. [/quote]
The fact is you have no idea what you are talking about. You have been told in this forum and general discussion forum by LEOS and non-LEOS alike that what you are saying is untrue, but you continue to post that LEOS are as a whole against RKBA. One more time: THE AVERAGE LEO BELIEVES IN THE RKBA. Is it sinking in yet?
[This message has been edited by mrat (edited October 08, 2000).]
Why are the police unions not being forced to side with us then? I don't get it, if most LEOs are pro-RKBA, the police unions should be yelling at the top of their lungs about how wrong every ban is. I want to see some official support of RKBA before I believe that the police don't mind me having AK-47s, and SKSs. I've met plenty of pro-RKBA cops, but WHERE IS THE SUPPORT???!
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
Our present union is local, not part of a national union. But I recall when I was a state employee member of a huge national union. I had no input into that union, and felt no connection to it or respect from it. I suspect that the same could be said of the larger national police unions.
How many of you that belong to groups like AFL-CIO, etc actually feel that the unions reflect what YOU the member wants?
How many of you that belong to groups like AFL-CIO, etc actually feel that the unions reflect what YOU the member wants?
Randy Davis
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cpt. John Park:
This is from Lebanon, Tennessee
(snip)
The TBI is investigating the shooting.
______________
Way too much of this stuff is happening.
I'm glad he was able to at least return fire.
JP
[/quote]
Yes, to be sure, but since the Diallo shooting, what else can one expect?
No, this is just another case of the police- sponcered assault on innocent Americans lives and rights.
Of course, when these goons try and enter my home, they WONT be so lucky, but thats another story
One can only hope these badge-wearers, not real peace officers, get whats coming to them, but good.
Oops, I forgot; This _is_ Police State, America, nowadays isn't it ?
Never mind
-----
RKBA Forever !
This is from Lebanon, Tennessee
(snip)
The TBI is investigating the shooting.
______________
Way too much of this stuff is happening.
I'm glad he was able to at least return fire.
JP
[/quote]
Yes, to be sure, but since the Diallo shooting, what else can one expect?
No, this is just another case of the police- sponcered assault on innocent Americans lives and rights.
Of course, when these goons try and enter my home, they WONT be so lucky, but thats another story
One can only hope these badge-wearers, not real peace officers, get whats coming to them, but good.
Oops, I forgot; This _is_ Police State, America, nowadays isn't it ?
Never mind
-----
RKBA Forever !
Compare the size of the LEAA www.leaa.org
to that of the commonly known Fraternal order of police who Im told originally openly endorsed Gore.
Thats what makes many of us feel many LEO's are anti-civil rights.
Ive met sherrifs deputies and a state patrol officer who treated me like a good friend.
When you run into those kind of people it makes you feel good respect them and glad their out their.
The ARK state trooper even had me sit in the front of his cruiser with him after he saw I had a carry permit as he filled out the warning ticket for me.That I beleive was against regulations, and we sat and talked about guns for several minutes.
Then Ive had city police who anytime theyve pulled me over after dark treat me like IM on the way to deal drugs or deliver guns tos some local gang.
These officers feel they are so elite that they are above the law and the in the face of their job or 'police procedure' your rights are an annoyance at best and almost anything they do is legal and in the line of duty.
If when such blatant actions were committed and discovered other LEO's reacted ashamed and stated that this officer should be punished like any other person we would all of course respect that and admire these other
LEO's honesty but....
too many times weve gotten the whole blue force response he has a tough job or our braaaave officers deserve some slack in these area's or its all 'in the line of duty' an this is what causes many of us to view many LEO's as criminal as the legislaters that keep working so hard to restrict our freedoms.
You want to know what takes bravery walk, live in some of these cities back and forth to work grocery store where you as a citizen cant carry because of liquor sales and contemplate which time you might be mugged
with no way to defend yourself wondering when that city murder rate on the top 10 of the nation is going to head your way and still wondering how many times youve lauged when you walked out of gas station and read the words
'in case of emergency dial 911'
or as you walk out of an Applebee's (where you eat but never drink)you pass officers glance at the pistols on their hips
and then see the sign as you walk out,
FELONY for carrying firearms on premisis
where alchohol is sold.
I get tired of being asked whenever Im pulled over for a routine stop
'do you have anything on you'?
I thought it was guilty till proven innocent.
Not assume guilt till youve searched vehicle.
POlice unions are just like labor unions they are their for the people who pay their dues and even then what can you do if your union leader doesnt represent your views leave...?
------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
to that of the commonly known Fraternal order of police who Im told originally openly endorsed Gore.
Thats what makes many of us feel many LEO's are anti-civil rights.
Ive met sherrifs deputies and a state patrol officer who treated me like a good friend.
When you run into those kind of people it makes you feel good respect them and glad their out their.
The ARK state trooper even had me sit in the front of his cruiser with him after he saw I had a carry permit as he filled out the warning ticket for me.That I beleive was against regulations, and we sat and talked about guns for several minutes.
Then Ive had city police who anytime theyve pulled me over after dark treat me like IM on the way to deal drugs or deliver guns tos some local gang.
These officers feel they are so elite that they are above the law and the in the face of their job or 'police procedure' your rights are an annoyance at best and almost anything they do is legal and in the line of duty.
If when such blatant actions were committed and discovered other LEO's reacted ashamed and stated that this officer should be punished like any other person we would all of course respect that and admire these other
LEO's honesty but....
too many times weve gotten the whole blue force response he has a tough job or our braaaave officers deserve some slack in these area's or its all 'in the line of duty' an this is what causes many of us to view many LEO's as criminal as the legislaters that keep working so hard to restrict our freedoms.
You want to know what takes bravery walk, live in some of these cities back and forth to work grocery store where you as a citizen cant carry because of liquor sales and contemplate which time you might be mugged
with no way to defend yourself wondering when that city murder rate on the top 10 of the nation is going to head your way and still wondering how many times youve lauged when you walked out of gas station and read the words
'in case of emergency dial 911'
or as you walk out of an Applebee's (where you eat but never drink)you pass officers glance at the pistols on their hips
and then see the sign as you walk out,
FELONY for carrying firearms on premisis
where alchohol is sold.
I get tired of being asked whenever Im pulled over for a routine stop
'do you have anything on you'?
I thought it was guilty till proven innocent.
Not assume guilt till youve searched vehicle.
POlice unions are just like labor unions they are their for the people who pay their dues and even then what can you do if your union leader doesnt represent your views leave...?
------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
A certain Mr. Paz (Peace) is shot in the willowbrook district of Los Angles by La Puente police that drove over 40 miles to kill this grandfather of fourteen. Reason" Mr. Paz was a nice guy and allowed the neighbor who, unbeknownst to him, was a drug dealer and allowed him to use his telephone a few times and have his mail dropped at the Paz home when he was out of town.
New York police raid the wrong home causing an 82-year-old minister to have a heart attack and die.
Los Angeles police lured by forfeiture dollars raid the Trail's End Ranch in Malibu resulting in the death of the owner, Donald Scott, who was in the act of cmmplying with their demands that he drop his weapon. As he went to lay down the weapon, it came to bear in the direction of the officers so they fired. Ventura County District Attorney rules the shooting justified because of the weapon being pointed toward the officers. Also states that forfeiture of the 200 acre ranch was the motive. No drugs were found.
Denver officers raid the wrong home and shoot to death a Mexican national standing on the bed in his underwear pointing a .22 cal revolver at them. Although they are wearing full body armor, they fire after repeated demands to drop the weapon are met with "Que pasa? Que pasa?" The "perpetrator" fired no shots. Family was awarded several million dollars in a settlement with the city.
In Northern California, a SWAT team raids the wrong home looking for a stolen gun. no firearms are found in the residence but the owner is shot 15 times with an MP-5. Coroner's report states that nine of the shots entered the body as it was falling to the floor. City disbanded the SWAT team and gave away the equipment to other departments.
The list goes on and on.
------------------
Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
New York police raid the wrong home causing an 82-year-old minister to have a heart attack and die.
Los Angeles police lured by forfeiture dollars raid the Trail's End Ranch in Malibu resulting in the death of the owner, Donald Scott, who was in the act of cmmplying with their demands that he drop his weapon. As he went to lay down the weapon, it came to bear in the direction of the officers so they fired. Ventura County District Attorney rules the shooting justified because of the weapon being pointed toward the officers. Also states that forfeiture of the 200 acre ranch was the motive. No drugs were found.
Denver officers raid the wrong home and shoot to death a Mexican national standing on the bed in his underwear pointing a .22 cal revolver at them. Although they are wearing full body armor, they fire after repeated demands to drop the weapon are met with "Que pasa? Que pasa?" The "perpetrator" fired no shots. Family was awarded several million dollars in a settlement with the city.
In Northern California, a SWAT team raids the wrong home looking for a stolen gun. no firearms are found in the residence but the owner is shot 15 times with an MP-5. Coroner's report states that nine of the shots entered the body as it was falling to the floor. City disbanded the SWAT team and gave away the equipment to other departments.
The list goes on and on.
------------------
Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
Randy Davis
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gusgus:
Folks,
Someday, someone will wrongfully "No Knock" the home of a Patriot, and will be greeted by a magazine of SS109 steel penetrators. That's the day the SWHTF!!!
Hopefully, if we elect an administration that respects the rights of it's citizens, "that day" will never come.[/quote]
Gusgus,
Then let's all hope and pray that the day the SWHTF comes very soon, as there will be NO administration, Democrat or Republican,as of late, that will "respect" our rights and put an end to police break-in's and other usurpation of our God-given rights.
The alternative, a new high-tech Holocaust, not all that far in the future now IMO, is simply unthinkable to many of us.
You want your rights? Then you had better be prepared to fight and die for them, not JUST cast a vote at the ballot box for the next political whore-in-office.
Bottom line, people!
---
RKBA Forever!
Folks,
Someday, someone will wrongfully "No Knock" the home of a Patriot, and will be greeted by a magazine of SS109 steel penetrators. That's the day the SWHTF!!!
Hopefully, if we elect an administration that respects the rights of it's citizens, "that day" will never come.[/quote]
Gusgus,
Then let's all hope and pray that the day the SWHTF comes very soon, as there will be NO administration, Democrat or Republican,as of late, that will "respect" our rights and put an end to police break-in's and other usurpation of our God-given rights.
The alternative, a new high-tech Holocaust, not all that far in the future now IMO, is simply unthinkable to many of us.
You want your rights? Then you had better be prepared to fight and die for them, not JUST cast a vote at the ballot box for the next political whore-in-office.
Bottom line, people!
---
RKBA Forever!
Good to you and me both Rick.
I bought a shirt last year at the LARGE gun shoe has a picutre of an officer on a street corner with mask armor and semi-auto shot guns.
Caption sais--'I hate this police state'.
check out my boys below what to you think it would say to the libs or your rep to hear these guys had a few hundred thousand members. www.ccops.org
concerned citizens opposed to police states.
A member on the other general thread of the topic mentioned the way above is why he keeps a loaded weapon or two by the bed.
You cant do that cut that crap out now
that is not practicing proper gun safety
(and you thoughs the libs werent taking this anywhere) think of the children and say
screw me as far as your own life and give a wide smile to the SWAT team who storm in after getting the 'right' address from someone waaaaaaay up whos sick of getting your ranting letters as they mow you down not knowing you were still trying to get the trigger lock of your pistol as you assumed maksed ninja were after you.
Sarcasm ,no never me,me or me.
The only dangerous gun is an unloaded one.
The most deadly crime in america is the proliferation of laws.
------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
I bought a shirt last year at the LARGE gun shoe has a picutre of an officer on a street corner with mask armor and semi-auto shot guns.
Caption sais--'I hate this police state'.
check out my boys below what to you think it would say to the libs or your rep to hear these guys had a few hundred thousand members. www.ccops.org
concerned citizens opposed to police states.
A member on the other general thread of the topic mentioned the way above is why he keeps a loaded weapon or two by the bed.
You cant do that cut that crap out now
that is not practicing proper gun safety
(and you thoughs the libs werent taking this anywhere) think of the children and say
screw me as far as your own life and give a wide smile to the SWAT team who storm in after getting the 'right' address from someone waaaaaaay up whos sick of getting your ranting letters as they mow you down not knowing you were still trying to get the trigger lock of your pistol as you assumed maksed ninja were after you.
Sarcasm ,no never me,me or me.
The only dangerous gun is an unloaded one.
The most deadly crime in america is the proliferation of laws.
------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
TearsOfRage
New member
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? [...] The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"
The Gulag Archipelago, A. Solzhenitsyn
The Gulag Archipelago, A. Solzhenitsyn
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimpeel:
Denver officers raid the wrong home and shoot to death a Mexican national standing on the bed in his underwear pointing a .22 cal revolver at them. Although they are wearing full body armor, they fire after repeated demands to drop the weapon are met with "Que pasa? Que pasa?" The "perpetrator" fired no shots. Family was awarded several million dollars in a settlement with the city.
[/quote]
The Denever PD screwed up, they were in the wrong house, no excuse for that. I agree they were WRONG. That said I have a couple of questions. You point out the guy was pointing a gun at them but did not fire. My question is: if someone is pointing a gun at you are you going to wait for them to shoot you before you fire? If they are speaking another language are you not going to shoot until they understand you? You also point out they were wearing "full" body armor. I don't know of anybody that wears head to toe armor. What LEOs wear (including SWAT) is a vest. That does not mean you let the person fire first, hope it hits your vest, hope the vest stops it and then you can return fire.
Denver officers raid the wrong home and shoot to death a Mexican national standing on the bed in his underwear pointing a .22 cal revolver at them. Although they are wearing full body armor, they fire after repeated demands to drop the weapon are met with "Que pasa? Que pasa?" The "perpetrator" fired no shots. Family was awarded several million dollars in a settlement with the city.
[/quote]
The Denever PD screwed up, they were in the wrong house, no excuse for that. I agree they were WRONG. That said I have a couple of questions. You point out the guy was pointing a gun at them but did not fire. My question is: if someone is pointing a gun at you are you going to wait for them to shoot you before you fire? If they are speaking another language are you not going to shoot until they understand you? You also point out they were wearing "full" body armor. I don't know of anybody that wears head to toe armor. What LEOs wear (including SWAT) is a vest. That does not mean you let the person fire first, hope it hits your vest, hope the vest stops it and then you can return fire.
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