copper at muzzle is stubborn
- Thread starter Colorado Redneck
- Start date
So with a 1.5 moa gun a shooter would have to break all the shots inside 8.25" at 547yards to assure hits, I would not describe a person that can do that offhand as a "good marksman", more like a shooting god!
I've shot 10 in row rams btw, with several edge hits and copper fouled barrel that groups under 1moa.
If the op is concerned about copper fouling or fouling in general he needs to get the barrel squeaky clean and run a test, shoot 5 shot groups until they start to open up, take note of that number and group size, continue until the group size grows larger than what he deems acceptable. I would assume his 204 is either a pd or coyote gun, he doesn't need benchrest accuracy for either{he's using factory bullets} you can't expect br groups from V-maxes.
Clean the carbon out of the barrel, a superficial cleaning.
Shoot groups again and see where he's at.
I used to go on 3 day excursion's to the western slope to shoot pd's, I had 3 or 4 rifles on most trips, a remington 700 in 17 Remington was a favorite but it would start throwing shots all over the place after approximately 70 rounds, a quick clean in the field would bring it right back and good for another 70rds. The barrel looked like it was copper lined.
I've shot 10 in row rams btw, with several edge hits and copper fouled barrel that groups under 1moa.
If the op is concerned about copper fouling or fouling in general he needs to get the barrel squeaky clean and run a test, shoot 5 shot groups until they start to open up, take note of that number and group size, continue until the group size grows larger than what he deems acceptable. I would assume his 204 is either a pd or coyote gun, he doesn't need benchrest accuracy for either{he's using factory bullets} you can't expect br groups from V-maxes.
Clean the carbon out of the barrel, a superficial cleaning.
Shoot groups again and see where he's at.
I used to go on 3 day excursion's to the western slope to shoot pd's, I had 3 or 4 rifles on most trips, a remington 700 in 17 Remington was a favorite but it would start throwing shots all over the place after approximately 70 rounds, a quick clean in the field would bring it right back and good for another 70rds. The barrel looked like it was copper lined.
You'll have to fire all shots aimed at least 4.125 inches inside the silhouette perimeter.
I did that math pretty quickly, 4.125 would only be 50% of the shot dispersal correct?
Regardless of the math when your shooting you need to "believe" that shots inside the target will hit otherwise you'll lose confidence in yourself and the gun whereas you might as well pack everything up and go home. A gun that won't group under 3/4 moa isn't a confidence builder, plenty of copper fouled guns will hold that standard.
Regardless of the math when your shooting you need to "believe" that shots inside the target will hit otherwise you'll lose confidence in yourself and the gun whereas you might as well pack everything up and go home. A gun that won't group under 3/4 moa isn't a confidence builder, plenty of copper fouled guns will hold that standard.
No. 100% because the extreme spread would put all shots on the silhouette. About half between group center and the outside silhouette edge while the others went from group center further inside.
There's a way to show the area a circle will fit inside an irregular area; look it up,
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Colorado Redneck
New member
KG-12
MY order arrived today, and I went to work on the Savage 12FV. Ran KG-12 thru 3 cycles, and the last patches were showing no fouling. There is still some visible from the muzzle, but lots less than before. It's going shooting in a few days and it's going to be interesting to see the outcome. That rifle was good for sub half inch a couple hundred rounds back. The best I could get last range session was 3/4 inch groups, and that was after a few hours of Hoppes Benchrest cleaning. I'm hopeful.
MY order arrived today, and I went to work on the Savage 12FV. Ran KG-12 thru 3 cycles, and the last patches were showing no fouling. There is still some visible from the muzzle, but lots less than before. It's going shooting in a few days and it's going to be interesting to see the outcome. That rifle was good for sub half inch a couple hundred rounds back. The best I could get last range session was 3/4 inch groups, and that was after a few hours of Hoppes Benchrest cleaning. I'm hopeful.
The 204 I believe is like the 17 with the respects that accuracy erodes quickly when copper fooled. I too shot silhouette in the 90’ s in raton. Our silhouette rifles mostly. Had cut rifling. Douglases were buttoned rifled, sure but they were also lapped. Our groves are much deeper and I think our bullets slower then the 204 cal.
So copper cleaning, idk if RB17 is still around, it was my favorite, Barnes makes a strong copper remover as does Sweets. Hoppes doesn’t clean very well and is kinda ok on powder fowling. If your an old time hoppes fan, I humbelly suggest there are other, better cleaners out there. Butches bore shine is milder then theaforementiond copper removers and one that I like. For lead fowling, shooters choice is my go too.
Back to copper cleaning prior to my digression, words of warning, do not mix these copper solvents with any other cleaner. Do not leave your gun un attended, clean the barrel out after a few minutes as per the directions and re apply. The blue color on your patch is the copper. When you run out of the blue stuff, run some dry patches through or some with brake cleaner. Then apply your gun oil. I like mil spec gun oil, but to each their own on oils.
Why not mix the copper cleaner with our cleaners applied with your patch, you might ask. It sets of a chemical reaction that pits the barrel.
Why not leave the copper cleaner in your barrel? It is too aggressive and will etch your barrel.
Your barrel is rough and that’s probably why it’s copper fowling, unless your just shooting a lot. Might think about lapping your barrel.
So copper cleaning, idk if RB17 is still around, it was my favorite, Barnes makes a strong copper remover as does Sweets. Hoppes doesn’t clean very well and is kinda ok on powder fowling. If your an old time hoppes fan, I humbelly suggest there are other, better cleaners out there. Butches bore shine is milder then theaforementiond copper removers and one that I like. For lead fowling, shooters choice is my go too.
Back to copper cleaning prior to my digression, words of warning, do not mix these copper solvents with any other cleaner. Do not leave your gun un attended, clean the barrel out after a few minutes as per the directions and re apply. The blue color on your patch is the copper. When you run out of the blue stuff, run some dry patches through or some with brake cleaner. Then apply your gun oil. I like mil spec gun oil, but to each their own on oils.
Why not mix the copper cleaner with our cleaners applied with your patch, you might ask. It sets of a chemical reaction that pits the barrel.
Why not leave the copper cleaner in your barrel? It is too aggressive and will etch your barrel.
Your barrel is rough and that’s probably why it’s copper fowling, unless your just shooting a lot. Might think about lapping your barrel.
hounddog409
New member
Throw that Hoppez In the garbage and get a good copper solvent.
Clean barrel with normal bore cleaner.
The wet patch with a quality copper solvent and run patch through.
Let soak for 30 minutes. Patch until no more blue seen. Then repeat.
Clean barrel with normal bore cleaner.
The wet patch with a quality copper solvent and run patch through.
Let soak for 30 minutes. Patch until no more blue seen. Then repeat.
Colorado Redneck
New member
The KG 12 seems to be the cats meow. Reminds me of Patch out Wipe out. Anyway, the rifle is shooting the way it did earlier. KG 12 is way easier than Sweets.
stagpanther
New member
Ran into that on a BAR I worked on recently; it becomes a hopeless cycle of hard cleaning to get a few accurate shots, the rifling at or near the muzzle having a profound effect on accuracy as the fouling (rapidly) progresses.