Conversion to Dillon (possibly), What About Dies?

In my opinion, bullet feeders are overrated...even if you're loading large volumes of handgun ammo... ( 3,000 plus rounds in an afternoon )...giving up the powder check die for a bullet feeder, is not worth it in my view.

On my 650, I routinely run 700 - 800 rds an hour...with no help / and I set the bullet on the case in between stations 3 and 4... / its an easy rhythm...
 
BigJimP said:
In my opinion, bullet feeders are overrated...even if you're loading large volumes of handgun ammo... ( 3,000 plus rounds in an afternoon )...giving up the powder check die for a bullet feeder, is not worth it in my view.

On my 650, I routinely run 700 - 800 rds an hour...with no help / and I set the bullet on the case in between stations 3 and 4... / its an easy rhythm...
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I'd been musing on that this afternoon. Based on my work on a turret press I can see where that rhythm could set in and it would not slow a guy down much. If nothing else I could save the money and not get the bullet feeder right away and see if I miss it.

Now a case feeder, I can see that being a big help.
 
Hrmph ... I suppose Dillon, by endorsing the Double Alpha/MBF one, ran the other one out of business.
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GSI is owned by Xavier Gonzales, he worked for Dillon for more than 20 years in design and development. The GSI feeder was in the Blue Press more than a decade ago, with a collator that never made it to market.

The lack of a fool proof collator was one thing that hurt the GSI feeder. I bought my first one from them before they developed a collator at all. I talked to Mr. Gonzales after I developed my own collator, that was 100% but they had finalized their design by that point.

In any case, they are not “out of business” rather pursuing more lucrative business, with military/LEO products. Among their customers are Dillon Aero, Dillon Precision, Nasa and Navy Crane.

I have original KISS feeders and their collators are simple and work well enough. After the partners split they changed to Mr. Bulletfeeder, then the design was trimmed down again with the partnership with Double Alpha.

If you don’t think a bullet feeder is of any benefit go watch that 2nd video in post #13 and then try and find a video of someone loading 100 rounds in under 4 minutes feeding bullets by hand. The real sweet part is it’s much less work, just stroke the handle and keep your eyes on the processes.
 
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Regardless of who Xavier Gonzales is, or how well he innovates, or what he now makes, the GSI bullet feeder is for all intents and purposes no longer available. Sure a guy might find a NOS or used one but they are not in that business anymore. Therefore the choice is to have the powder check or a bullet feeder (or possibly lose the separate crimp).

So, do I think the bullet feeder is of any benefit? Sure I do. Do I know it's of more benefit than the safety net provided by the powder check? I don't know. I do know a 650 without a bullet feeder is faster than I am right now with a turret press so I might never miss that speed.

... or I may decide that my powder throw and a careful eye is good enough and get the bullet feeder. Who knows? I do know it's frustrating to look at purchasing a high end press and all of a sudden have to make choices on what feature not to have.
 
Yes, the Dillon case feeder is a very good option / ...the 650 is really designed to be run with the case feeder ( with sta 1 ...on the back side - at the right )...
 
Therefore the choice is to have the powder check or a bullet feeder (or possibly lose the separate crimp).
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Maybe, there are other feed/seat dies out there, some really good ones for rifle bullets. MA Systems had a commercial pneumatic bullet feeder that works in much the same way Lee’s plastic finger bullet feeder does, with a standard seating die. If you could get the Lee one to work better than the one I had, you would be set as well.

But sure, if you never use a progressive you wouldn’t know how much better than it was over a single stage or turret, same goes for using case and bullet feeders.
 
Yes, the Dillon case feeder is a very good option / ...the 650 is really designed to be run with the case feeder ( with sta 1 ...on the back side - at the right )...
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I have never seen a 650 without everything to take the cases, base down, and move one at a time with each stroke of the handle, from the tube and into the shell plate.

What they sell as the optional “case feeder” is actually just a collator or case feed, feeder. It just drops the cases base down into the tube.

There are also folks that have saved the extra money and adapted the Lee collators to Dillon machines.

Here is one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGzmlvhcJyk
 
It's my PERSONAL OPINION Dillion machines are for people that are serious.
I'm like most people, I tried other machines, but as volume went up the glitches and limitations showed up and got real annoying.
If you leave the machine sit for a year at a time, probably not worth tooling up a Dillon.
If you use it a lot, that spare parts kit and extras are worth gold.

Dillon IS a mass produced machine, it will need tuning, a few gadgets as you get rolling faster & faster, but it WILL keep up with muscle power with very little work. My XL650s ran out of the box, ran a lot better with a day of tuning.
Let's face it, at 350 an hour it will keep up with just tuning, get up to the advertised 600-650 and hour, and you will be experienced enough to identify glitches and fix them.

As for dies & other accessories, most won't work or won't work well.
The dies interchange, but many won't run all that well, sticking issues, small mouth/misalignment issues, etc.
I don't consider dies sacred, so I modify to work where I need them.
A little trim here, a little polish there and most can be made to run mostly trouble free.

*IF* I could go back in time, I would have jumped from the first Lee 'Turret' right to a Dillon 650, would have saved a crap load of time & money on other progressives that simply can't be made or kept reliable with thousands of rounds a month.

With Dillon, cleaning & lubrication! Keep it lubed.
I clean anytime it stops, a quick pass with the vacuum nozzle, a little brush here & there and you will avoid full tear down & cleaning for a year at a time.
I lube every couple thousand rounds (if you miss one it's no big deal), a little lube at several intervals is much better than a lot of lube at the start.

The aftermarket supports the 650 pretty good, lots of little upgrades. Rollers in friction applications, adjustable parts where Dillion didn't put one in for adjusting to the Nth degree, some of it works, some of it doesn't, some is just silly...

When you get rolling, the 'Extras' come in REAL handy!
Extra primer tubes in particular, spare parts for when you break or loose those little SOBs,
EVERYONE gets it rolling, then tried to see how many they can load, and it WILL load everything in the house! Once it runs smooth, it's addictive!

There are motor kits out there, I went with a motor on a 650, but I personally think the frame isn't strong enough, and the machine doesn't run on roller bearing, so I stopped when I noticed excessive wear.
Now, if you talk Super 1050....
 
Doublehelix3216 said:
Rather than the Dillon Powder check die (that buzzes when there is a problem), I use the RCBS Lock-Out die. This actually locks the press so you cannot advance the shells to the next position until you fix the problem. Love it. Genius design!!!
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Is it as sensitive as the Dillon one? I saw a YouTube vid where it was indicating an issue when the charge was 0.1gn off.
 
Wow. That Dillon in those videos looks pretty cool. But for me it would be like buying a decked out Corvette to go to the grocery store! lol I don't know that I will ever load more than a couple hundred rounds at a time.
 
SonOfScubaDiver said:
Wow. That Dillon in those videos looks pretty cool. But for me it would be like buying a decked out Corvette to go to the grocery store! lol I don't know that I will ever load more than a couple hundred rounds at a time.
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You say that like it would be a bad idea to take a Corvette to the store. :)
 
I don't load more than a couple hundred at a time. My Dillons let me load them quickly and move on to other stuff. My goal is to replace what I shot last week, and provide what I expect to shoot next week. If I do this every week, I accumulate a reserve. But I am not a case at a sitting loader.
 
I don't know that I will ever load more than a couple hundred rounds at a time.
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Me too, most of the times. I have less than 10 minutes in the process to load, casegauge and box 200 rounds for this weeks match.

When I load with slower machines, it takes longer, sometimes much longer.
 
Skip all the extra complexity for now. Buy a Dillon 550 and skip the case feeder. The 550 is very well designed and you will be able to make 400 per hour if you are production minded. Get the 550 and some Dillon dies. It will cost less and be easier to set up. Manual indexing and checking your powder throws with a good light mounted over the press works just fine.
 
I have never regretted buying my 550B. It's a great machine and it's MUCH cheaper to set up than the 650. I would only get a 650 if you are sure you will get a case feeder and maybe a bullet feeder too.

Otherwise, you are much dollars ahead with the 550 and it can actually use a case feeder for pistol if you want that later on.

550.

Also, get the Dillon sizing dies for sure. I use Forster Comp Seaters for rifle on my 550 and Redding comp dies for pistols. Mostly because they are easy to adjust in the tight space of a progressive press.
 
Master Blaster said:
Skip all the extra complexity for now. Buy a Dillon 550 and skip the case feeder. The 550 is very well designed and you will be able to make 400 per hour if you are production minded. Get the 550 and some Dillon dies. It will cost less and be easier to set up. Manual indexing and checking your powder throws with a good light mounted over the press works just fine.
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I just can't see that happening. The reason I was originally looking to replace my turret press was because the indexing is not always 100% spot on and I have to index by hand. If I was to drop that much cabbage on a press that did not index itself I'm not sure I would see it as a huge upgrade.
 
Use LEE and RCBS dies all the time with my 650. Dillon dies are no better or worse performing than the other brands, but much more pricey. LEE dies are shorter OAL as others have stated. You simply thread the locking ring on the bottom of the shell plate instead of the top if you find you can't use the lock ring on the top. I do like the Dillon dies's quick change seating die insert that can be flipped from RN to SWC profiled bullets. This is a nice option for loading different cast bullet profiles. I initially used the optional powder check alarm but quickly realized I didn't need it for straight wall pistol. I prefer to leave that station empty and just visually confirm my powder charge. I do use the powder check for bottleneck rifle, especially loading uncommon recipies where a double charge could be very dangerous. A double charge on the 650 is *almost* impossible unless the user somehow re-indexes the shell plate backwards.

The case feeder option is one of those "must have" type options. Yes you can start without one but it's a substantial hindrance in both efficient speed and having to manually load casings AND bullets creates additional unwanted distractions for the new Dillon handloader. There is no doubt a lengthly learning curve to efficiently setup and operate the Dillon 650, but while it was very frustrating for me initially, now a few years later have a solid understanding of function and how to quickly correct loading issues. It's very gratifying when you have the 650 tuned perfectly and it bangs out ammo with perfect precision and repeat-ability.
 
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When I bought my 650, I used it for about a week before ordering the case feeder. My left armed thanked me when I ordered the case feeder. Having the case feeder install allowed me to work faster since I could keep my eyes glue to the shell plate and not need to constantly drop cases down the feed tube. The 650 does have a learning curve, especially for someone like me since I had no reloading experience when I purchased mine. Took me a while to figure out how it worked. And even longer to get it smoothed out and not flipping powder every time the shell plate indexed. For pumping out ammo, I like my 650 with the powder check system and case feeder. I use mine for pumping out .223/5.56, 6.8, .308, .45, and .40 currently.
 
I just can't see that happening. The reason I was originally looking to replace my turret press was because the indexing is not always 100% spot on and I have to index by hand. If I was to drop that much cabbage on a press that did not index itself I'm not sure I would see it as a huge upgrade.
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The huge advantage of a progressive is that you are doing all operations with 1 stroke vs the turret where you are having to stroke the machine once for each operation.

I will admit, I am not fond of the concept of a progressive that does not index itself automatically and I owned more than one of every Dillon except the 550, a couple of LNL’s, an RCBS progressive and even a Lee progressive before I finally bought a 550.

That said, if you can walk and chew gum at the same time, it’s not that big of a deal. You stroke the press and with your left hand (the one that has the bullet you’re going to put on the case at #3) indexes the shell plate, you place bullet with left hand and another case with the right one before completing another stroke and repeat.

Worried about double charging? Just make sure you have placed a bullet and inserted a new case with each pull of the handle. At that point, the only way you will have any issues would be if you can seat two bullets or manage to get two cases into station #1. Another one of the “problems” people that have never used one, bring up.
 
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