Conversion Cylinder
- Thread starter manowar
- Start date
You didn't say specifically which guns you are talking about, but I can quickly think of three on the market that come to mind.
Ruger Blackhawk
Ruger Single Six
Taurus Model... something.
The Blackhawk has been offered in .357/9mm, .45 ACP/.45 Colt and a couple limited special runs like .38-40/10mm and another I don't recall.
The Single Six is very popular with a .22LR/.22 Mag
And the Taurus model likewise, same setup.
All of these above work because the bore diameter between the conversions is really "close enough." It is not 100% exactly the same, but it is close enough between the calibers that it gives decent accuracy without concerns over pressure.
Ruger Blackhawk
Ruger Single Six
Taurus Model... something.
The Blackhawk has been offered in .357/9mm, .45 ACP/.45 Colt and a couple limited special runs like .38-40/10mm and another I don't recall.
The Single Six is very popular with a .22LR/.22 Mag
And the Taurus model likewise, same setup.
All of these above work because the bore diameter between the conversions is really "close enough." It is not 100% exactly the same, but it is close enough between the calibers that it gives decent accuracy without concerns over pressure.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
Exactly what type of conversion cylinder are you asking about? Since this is the Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting section of the Forum I am assuming you are talking about conversion cylinders for Cap & Ball revolvers that allow them to shoot cartridges.
Like this:
Or, are you talking about cylinders for cartridge revolvers that allow the revolver to be shot with two different cartridges?
Like this Blackhawk I bought many years ago with a 45 Colt cylinder and a 45 ACP cylinder?
In the case of my old Ruger, both cylinders were fitted to the frame at the factory, so that either one could drop in and function properly. That's why the guns were sold with both cylinders. If you buy a 45 ACP cylinder for a 45 Colt Ruger, it may or may not fit and function properly, kind of a crap shoot. I have one 45 Colt Vaquero and the cylinder from another 45 Colt Vaquero absolutely will not even fit into the revolver, much less function properly.
In the case of cartridge conversion cylinders for C&B revolvers, the simple fact is they do not always drop in and work properly. Sometimes some custom fitting is needed. Most of the time they do drop right in and function properly, which is pretty amazing, because the manufacturer of the cylinder has no control over the tolerances the revolver was manufactured to. They have to deal with whatever variation may have happened over time as a particular manufacturer made their revolvers. Pretty amazing when you stop to think about it.
Exactly what type of conversion cylinder are you asking about? Since this is the Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting section of the Forum I am assuming you are talking about conversion cylinders for Cap & Ball revolvers that allow them to shoot cartridges.
Like this:
Or, are you talking about cylinders for cartridge revolvers that allow the revolver to be shot with two different cartridges?
Like this Blackhawk I bought many years ago with a 45 Colt cylinder and a 45 ACP cylinder?
In the case of my old Ruger, both cylinders were fitted to the frame at the factory, so that either one could drop in and function properly. That's why the guns were sold with both cylinders. If you buy a 45 ACP cylinder for a 45 Colt Ruger, it may or may not fit and function properly, kind of a crap shoot. I have one 45 Colt Vaquero and the cylinder from another 45 Colt Vaquero absolutely will not even fit into the revolver, much less function properly.
In the case of cartridge conversion cylinders for C&B revolvers, the simple fact is they do not always drop in and work properly. Sometimes some custom fitting is needed. Most of the time they do drop right in and function properly, which is pretty amazing, because the manufacturer of the cylinder has no control over the tolerances the revolver was manufactured to. They have to deal with whatever variation may have happened over time as a particular manufacturer made their revolvers. Pretty amazing when you stop to think about it.
Jim Watson
New member
And it can go the other way.
I traded for a Mitchell SAA built for them by Uberti. It came with both .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders. The Colt cylinder was fine but the ACP cylinder was prone to carry over, going past the next chamber. It fit and functioned in a friend's Uberti, so I sold it to him and sold the revolver with the LC cylinder only.
I always tended to doubt claims by importers that they got special selection or attention from the Italian clone labs. But maybe they do and this Mitchell was one of the leftovers. It shot ok with the LC cylinder but it was not of the fit and finish of a nice Cimarron or Taylor. Had an odd length barrel, too; neither the 4.75" "civilian model" nor the 5.5" "Artillery Model." Not exactly 5", either, but close.
I traded for a Mitchell SAA built for them by Uberti. It came with both .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders. The Colt cylinder was fine but the ACP cylinder was prone to carry over, going past the next chamber. It fit and functioned in a friend's Uberti, so I sold it to him and sold the revolver with the LC cylinder only.
I always tended to doubt claims by importers that they got special selection or attention from the Italian clone labs. But maybe they do and this Mitchell was one of the leftovers. It shot ok with the LC cylinder but it was not of the fit and finish of a nice Cimarron or Taylor. Had an odd length barrel, too; neither the 4.75" "civilian model" nor the 5.5" "Artillery Model." Not exactly 5", either, but close.
Bishop Creek
New member
It is amazing that black powder conversion cylinders drop right in Driftwood. I lucked out on this early Kirst cylinder dropping right into my 1999 made '58 Remington .44. Also an R&D cylinder from Taylor's that fit with no problems in my '58 Remington .36.
I is talkin' bout Cap and Ball, say a Uberti 1860 Army
and some man in the computer machine at Taylor's telling me I can shoot low pressure .45 Long Cot cartridges through it if I just drop in a particular cylinder they sell for $240.
OK, I can picture a cylinder swap easily enough, but where do you feed the cartridges?
and some man in the computer machine at Taylor's telling me I can shoot low pressure .45 Long Cot cartridges through it if I just drop in a particular cylinder they sell for $240.
OK, I can picture a cylinder swap easily enough, but where do you feed the cartridges?
And C'mon Sevens!
We're on a Black Powder Cap and Ball Web Site! And do you really think anybody would find it mysterious to use a cylinder for .22mag SMOKELESS bullets in a gun that also uses .22 Long Rifle SMOKELESS cartridges? ANd ditto the .45 Long Colt/.45 acp switcheroo?
And hey! That goes for you too, Driftwood! Especially since you answered a question about these types of guns in our fair bay state a few days ago.
I'm not a feisty bad guy by nature and I'm not trying to get stupid and pushy with you, but you have to admit the forum context pretty much fills in the blanks, no?
I'm going to bed. Peace.
We're on a Black Powder Cap and Ball Web Site! And do you really think anybody would find it mysterious to use a cylinder for .22mag SMOKELESS bullets in a gun that also uses .22 Long Rifle SMOKELESS cartridges? ANd ditto the .45 Long Colt/.45 acp switcheroo?
And hey! That goes for you too, Driftwood! Especially since you answered a question about these types of guns in our fair bay state a few days ago.
I'm not a feisty bad guy by nature and I'm not trying to get stupid and pushy with you, but you have to admit the forum context pretty much fills in the blanks, no?
I'm going to bed. Peace.
Haha, I simply order the site to load new posts and depending on what device I am viewing the forum... it is simply not (at all) obvious on my little screen that we were in the Black Powder area of the site.
Hope your sleep worked out for you. You might consider a few other tricks to remedy your attitude... assuming you can find someone to explain them to you.
Hope your sleep worked out for you. You might consider a few other tricks to remedy your attitude... assuming you can find someone to explain them to you.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
I have no idea where you are coming from. I have no idea how much you know and how much you don't know. I thought I answered your question pretty well, for both types of conversion cylinders, C&B to Cartridge or Cartridge to Cartridge.
It should be perfectly obvious how my Taylors/R&D cylinder is loaded and unloaded. You have to remove it from the gun and separate the cylinder from its endcap. Then you pop the loaded cylinder back into the gun, exactly the same way Clint did it in Pale rider.
Other Remington conversion cylinders can be loaded through a loading gate, but you have to cut the gate into the frame.
With a Colt open top style revolver you either have drive out the wedge and remove the barrel and cylinder, or cut a slot in the recoil shield so you can load from the rear.
Here is a great video explaining how the Remington conversion cylinders work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axwZhrsxazQ
And here is a video showing Colt style revolvers with conversion cylinders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyaj8K5y1Us
Hope you wake up in a better mood or I won't bother answering your questions next time.
foolzrushn
New member
Sevens-I don't think that it will hurt to get away from the 'smoke-less' bunch, and get a little BP residue on your nose once in a while....you can always tell'em it was an accident. 
Manowar-More context on conversions here:
http://www.oldsouthfirearms/conversioncylinders.aspx
Manowar-More context on conversions here:
http://www.oldsouthfirearms/conversioncylinders.aspx
foolzrushn
New member
Driftwood, ya beat me. I type slow.
Ya know, I think I might get tired of taking out the wedge on my Colt, but don't know if I would want to Dremel it either.
Ya know, I think I might get tired of taking out the wedge on my Colt, but don't know if I would want to Dremel it either.
First Off, MANY THANKS to ALL of You Guys....
..who pitched in and helped. I know, I know, I came off a little ornery and scrappy, that's a bad part of my nature, and after all, today is my birthday for God's sake and if I haven't smoothed out the edges in 61 years how much hope do I have? You just have to know that I don't MEAN to be that way I just can SOUND that way.
Anyway, the links supplied are all great, special shout out to fellow MassPike Pilgrim Driftwood Johnson and foolzrushn.
I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out, but like I said, ALL you guys pitched in and helped this aging old coot.
And sevens! Great to see you sling some fun right back at me, I deserved it and loved it all at once!
I guess the real issue is why shoot cap and ball guns if we're gonna skip the caps and the balls (double meaning?) and get lazy and replace them with quick and easy cartridges? Maybe that's the appeal of the conversion cylinders; you can still do both
Anyway, it bears repeating; THANKS again to one and all
..who pitched in and helped. I know, I know, I came off a little ornery and scrappy, that's a bad part of my nature, and after all, today is my birthday for God's sake and if I haven't smoothed out the edges in 61 years how much hope do I have? You just have to know that I don't MEAN to be that way I just can SOUND that way.
Anyway, the links supplied are all great, special shout out to fellow MassPike Pilgrim Driftwood Johnson and foolzrushn.
I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out, but like I said, ALL you guys pitched in and helped this aging old coot.
And sevens! Great to see you sling some fun right back at me, I deserved it and loved it all at once!
I guess the real issue is why shoot cap and ball guns if we're gonna skip the caps and the balls (double meaning?) and get lazy and replace them with quick and easy cartridges? Maybe that's the appeal of the conversion cylinders; you can still do both
Anyway, it bears repeating; THANKS again to one and all
Closest I've come to black powder was Pyrodex from a Ruger Old Army.
I loved the build quality of the revolver and it was accurate. I enjoyed the experience, but the mess and all the needed accoutrements just wasn't my cup of tea.
The second closest I've come to black powder? Mistakenly wandering in to this area of our fine site.
I loved the build quality of the revolver and it was accurate. I enjoyed the experience, but the mess and all the needed accoutrements just wasn't my cup of tea.
The second closest I've come to black powder? Mistakenly wandering in to this area of our fine site.
attn: foolzrushn Link
the link you provide comes up empty, i.e."This page cannot be displayed"
IREALLY would like to see whatever you want me to see. It's like torture! Actually, it's NOTHING like true torture, forgive me for falling into that stupid trap of abusing the English language.
But it certainly is frustrating. If you happen to see this and have a spare minute could you please check the link's address and see if a correction is needed to view it?
I'd certainly appreciate it, but will understand if it doesn't come to pass. I just figured I should take a shot and mention it.
the link you provide comes up empty, i.e."This page cannot be displayed"
IREALLY would like to see whatever you want me to see. It's like torture! Actually, it's NOTHING like true torture, forgive me for falling into that stupid trap of abusing the English language.
But it certainly is frustrating. If you happen to see this and have a spare minute could you please check the link's address and see if a correction is needed to view it?
I'd certainly appreciate it, but will understand if it doesn't come to pass. I just figured I should take a shot and mention it.
Tidewater_Kid
New member
Driftwood Johnson
New member
With all due respect, there is nothing lazy or 'quick and easy' about cartridges, particularly when they are loaded with Black Powder. It may be quick and easy to load cartridges into the cylinder, but I can assure you there is nothing 'quick and easy' nor lazy about loading up a couple of hundred 45 Colts with Black Powder. The difference is all the work is done beforehand, while making the ammo, as opposed to doing the work on the range.
I use Big Lube bullets that carry a huge amount of BP compatible lube on them. I used to cast them myself, but these days I buy them from a guy in California. They are not available locally. Unlike Smokeless powder, where a few grains of powder will propel the bullet for a fraction of a penny, Black Powder loads have to just about fill the case, which means I only get about 4 boxes of ammo from a pound of powder. And then there is cleaning the guns when I am done shooting. Not exactly 'quick and easy'.
I paid my dues with Cap & Ball revolvers over 40 years ago. After a while you get tired of cap failures and caps falling into the mechanism jamming the gun. That's why I seldom shoot C&B anymore and only shoot my Remmies with cartridges. Cartridges were invented for a reason, they are more reliable than C&B and you don't have to mess with loose powder, balls, and caps on the range. Why do you think conversion cylinders were invented in the first place, right after the Civil War? Why do you think they replaced C&B? Because they worked and they were more reliable than C&B.
And nothing bucks and roars like a 250 grain full house BP 45 Colt load in a Remmie, or a Colt for that matter. C&B doesn't even come close.
Driftwood, I can agree based on my smokeless .45's
I don't want to come off like a hypocrite, let me set that straight right from the start that I have MUCH more mileage with smokeless pistol shooting than Black powder having only recently started with this format.
Johnson, you bring up a very good point: you mention that all your cartridges are handloaded with black powder. I recall somebody saying they used commercial rounds from companies like Black Hills and Bone Orchard whose pressures were below 800 fps, usually something like 725 or so.
Can any commercial rounds be used or should only handloaded BP rounds be shot with a conversion cylinder? I've got plenty of years loading smokeless rounds so I'm not scared off by having to switch to black, although I must admit I hadn't considered the quantities used would be so much more.
So to sum up I guess my question is whether or not it is safe to use commercial Cowboy SASS loads with low pressures in a gun with a conversion cylinder?
I don't want to come off like a hypocrite, let me set that straight right from the start that I have MUCH more mileage with smokeless pistol shooting than Black powder having only recently started with this format.
Johnson, you bring up a very good point: you mention that all your cartridges are handloaded with black powder. I recall somebody saying they used commercial rounds from companies like Black Hills and Bone Orchard whose pressures were below 800 fps, usually something like 725 or so.
Can any commercial rounds be used or should only handloaded BP rounds be shot with a conversion cylinder? I've got plenty of years loading smokeless rounds so I'm not scared off by having to switch to black, although I must admit I hadn't considered the quantities used would be so much more.
So to sum up I guess my question is whether or not it is safe to use commercial Cowboy SASS loads with low pressures in a gun with a conversion cylinder?
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Here is the pamphlet that came with my Taylor's/R&D cylinders.
You can see it states that these cylinders are safe to shoot with Smokeless commercial 'Cowboy' ammo.
However note that they make the same error that you do. Defining ammo by velocity is meaningless. It is too much pressure, not velocity that destroys firearms. Boosting a given bullet to 750 or 850 fps with one powder may develop significantly different pressure than using some other powder. There is no official SAAMI standard for what constitutes 'Cowboy' ammo. The SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi. There is no official SAAMI Max for Cowboy ammo, it is whatever the manufacturer chooses. However, to answer your question, yes, my cylinders are proofed for mild Cowboy loads.
Here are links to the other two conversion cylinder manufacturer's webpages.
http://howelloldwestconversions.com/index.html
http://www.kirstkonverter.com/
You can see it states that these cylinders are safe to shoot with Smokeless commercial 'Cowboy' ammo.
However note that they make the same error that you do. Defining ammo by velocity is meaningless. It is too much pressure, not velocity that destroys firearms. Boosting a given bullet to 750 or 850 fps with one powder may develop significantly different pressure than using some other powder. There is no official SAAMI standard for what constitutes 'Cowboy' ammo. The SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi. There is no official SAAMI Max for Cowboy ammo, it is whatever the manufacturer chooses. However, to answer your question, yes, my cylinders are proofed for mild Cowboy loads.
Here are links to the other two conversion cylinder manufacturer's webpages.
http://howelloldwestconversions.com/index.html
http://www.kirstkonverter.com/