I've had my Smith and Wesson 617 for almost a year now. I love the gun and its a blast to shoot, but I plan on taking a conceal carry class soon, and I would like to move into the world of centerfire. I have no idea where to start looking for info on good carry guns. I do know a few things. I dont want a glock, and I'm still not used to the bigger .45 magnum loads so I would like to consider smaller caliber. I wouldnt mind another revolver, that being said, if I got a carry revolver, I want one with an exposed hammer. I was also looking at the smaller 1911's. Do people carry these? They look damn sexy, but I have been reading a bit about them having a break in period. I also dont want to be spending $1300 on a gun. I guess I'm just looking for opinions, or a general direction to head with this.
Contemplating second gun
- Thread starter Boz Mon
- Start date
Cheapshooter
New member
1.
Maybe a bit more to learn.
2.
3.
4.
45 magnum?
Maybe a bit more to learn.
2.
Might want to give that a little more thought. An exposed hammer is something.g to snag on clothing when drawn, and in a SD situation there is no need for it.
3.
Yes they do, and there are some of very similar design in 9MM, and even 380cap if you don't want one on 45cap (not a magnum round)
4.
Every new, or even used for that matter, concealed carry gun should be shot a minimum of 100-200 rounds before trusting it. Call it break in, or shake down, you want to know it is 100% reliable. It should also be checked out with what ever carry ammo you decide to use to make sure it functions perfectly as well.
Spats McGee
Administrator
If I understand your requirements, it's:
Operating on the theory that I'm pretty close, I'll suggest something in 9mm. Maybe a Ruger SR9 or 9C, XD of some kind in 9mm, or a Smith and Wesson M&P 9? Or even a 1911 in 9mm. Yes, they make those.
I'll join Cheapshooter in cautioning against the exposed hammer on a carry revolver, though.
- Non-Glock;
- Possible CC pistol;
- Centerfire;
- Won't beat you up, recoil-wise.
Operating on the theory that I'm pretty close, I'll suggest something in 9mm. Maybe a Ruger SR9 or 9C, XD of some kind in 9mm, or a Smith and Wesson M&P 9? Or even a 1911 in 9mm. Yes, they make those.
I'll join Cheapshooter in cautioning against the exposed hammer on a carry revolver, though.
Cheapshooter
New member
As suggested on virtually every thread about buying a gun that's design, function, or use will be new to the poster. Find a range that rents guns, and try all possible choices!
This goes for designs you may not be currently interested in. Including several striker fired semi-autos, and double action only shameless revolvers.
Lots of things you may find that you will change your mind about.
A couple questions to help guide you.
1. Why no Block?
2. Why no shameless revolver?
3. What form of carry are you considering?
4. What is your price range including What you will be able to spend on ammo, and range time to learn, and prove your new gun?
This goes for designs you may not be currently interested in. Including several striker fired semi-autos, and double action only shameless revolvers.
Lots of things you may find that you will change your mind about.
A couple questions to help guide you.
1. Why no Block?
2. Why no shameless revolver?
3. What form of carry are you considering?
4. What is your price range including What you will be able to spend on ammo, and range time to learn, and prove your new gun?
I dont want a glock because honestly, I dont like how they look. I was thinking wasteband carry, or a shoulder holster. I could get go for a hammerless revolver if I really liked it. My 617 was $850, though I could swing that much for another gun, I really would like to keep the price down for initial purchase. I've been trying to get to the range once per week to work on my technique, but that doesnt always happnen.
I suggest that you go to a range and rent some guns that you might buy. Some ranges sell guns and they will credit all rental fees towards the purchase. Don't be afraid to barter with them. They kind of expect it. The gun biness is very competitive these days. You won't wind up with a piece of junk.
Cheapshooter
New member
Another S&W K frame in a centerfire cartridge, with a short barrel would be good as long as you don't mind the weight. Other choices could be a smaller, lighter J frame snubbie.
Also, if you stay intent on an exposed hammer, Ruger has brought out the excellent LCRx, an exposed hammer version of their Polymer revolver.
Now, as far as the 1911, I don't want this to start a war, but you need to give some thought to if you really want a single action only auto. I know many are comfortable with cocked and locked carry of a 1911, and it is safe, but for a concealed carry self defense gun there are a lot of advantages to a double action, or striker fired gun.
One of those you are already aware of with your revolver. No manuall safety to deal with. The long D/A trigger pull, along with other features is the safety. You don't have to manually operate anything but the trigger in a stressful situation where that little flick of a safety might be forgotten, or fumbled.
Possibly something in a CZ BD, or Sig.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-2075-rami-bd-9mm-black-alloy-3-dot-tritium-sights-14-rd-mags/
http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p239.aspx
Also, if you stay intent on an exposed hammer, Ruger has brought out the excellent LCRx, an exposed hammer version of their Polymer revolver.
Now, as far as the 1911, I don't want this to start a war, but you need to give some thought to if you really want a single action only auto. I know many are comfortable with cocked and locked carry of a 1911, and it is safe, but for a concealed carry self defense gun there are a lot of advantages to a double action, or striker fired gun.
One of those you are already aware of with your revolver. No manuall safety to deal with. The long D/A trigger pull, along with other features is the safety. You don't have to manually operate anything but the trigger in a stressful situation where that little flick of a safety might be forgotten, or fumbled.
Possibly something in a CZ BD, or Sig.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-2075-rami-bd-9mm-black-alloy-3-dot-tritium-sights-14-rd-mags/
http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p239.aspx
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If you're going to take the class soon, it might be best to stick with the platform you already know--a K-frame revolver. You could buy a solid, used Model 10 and have $900 or $1,000 left over for ammo, training, etc., for the cost of a "sexy" pistol you mentioned. 
I'm a Scot, and we have a reputation for frugality.
I'm a Scot, and we have a reputation for frugality.
jglsprings
New member
I wish I could remember which one was my second gun...
That was a long time ago.
That was a long time ago.
Cheapshooter
New member
Your 617 is a K frame. The only smaller dimension would be barrel length. In my opinion, yes. Too big and heavy for concealed carry. A
J frame is much more concealable, and lighter.
A lot depends on your build. some people can conceal full size 1911s, even double stacks with no problem or concern about the weight. Others look for the smallest lightest single stack they can find or they aren't comfortable.
I recently spent a day with my mother while wearing a cheap airsoft shoulder rig that I picked up as a try out for a carry option. Had a full size 9mm TriStar T-120 with just a short sleeve opened button shirt as a cover and she never noticed. It's an alloy framed double stack gun and it was very comfortable. But I'm an old fat guy and a couple pounds of gun never bothered me.
Carry as much gun as you can carry EVERY DAY without getting tired enough of it to forget about doing it. You should also consider that you will want a gun that's easy to shoot accurately for your classes. The bigger and heavier you can get by with is usually better in that regard.
I recently spent a day with my mother while wearing a cheap airsoft shoulder rig that I picked up as a try out for a carry option. Had a full size 9mm TriStar T-120 with just a short sleeve opened button shirt as a cover and she never noticed. It's an alloy framed double stack gun and it was very comfortable. But I'm an old fat guy and a couple pounds of gun never bothered me.
Carry as much gun as you can carry EVERY DAY without getting tired enough of it to forget about doing it. You should also consider that you will want a gun that's easy to shoot accurately for your classes. The bigger and heavier you can get by with is usually better in that regard.
You have so many great options that it will literally blow your mind. I encourage you not discount a Glock as while they may not be the prettiest gun, they are fantastic platforms with good triggers. After all, no modern double stack striker fired gun will win any beauty pageants. My preferred carry gun is a CCO pattern 1911 because of its horsepower and small size. It really is just about perfect for a guy like me with smaller hands and sitting on an aluminum frame greatly cuts down the weight on a platform already known to be quite heavy. I also wouldn't discount a .45 ACP (I'll assume that's what you meant?) because the recoil really isn't that bad. It's a fairly low pressure round, just with a nice big circumference! A good holster will go a long way in ensuring your comfortability and I recommend an IWB from Crossbreed. It will cost you $80 and a few weeks wait but it will be totally worth it. There is no go around with a cheap holster.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
1911s can be found with steel receivers, or aluminum alloy receivers. Caspian Arms even offers titanium receivers, but they don't build guns, they sell slides and receivers to custom gunsmiths. The pistols with alloy frames are noticeably lighter, which is a blessing for regular carry. But, not every 1911 manufacturer offers alloy receivers.Boz Man said:
Go to the M1911.org e-zine and read some of their reviews. The specs are listed at the end of each review, so you can compare weights.
http://ezine.m1911.org/forum.php
A steel framed 5" 1911 will run about 42 ounces .... a 3" alloy framed gun will be a little over half that. My Springfield EMP is 26 ounces, empty.
Why is it that you want an exposed hammer on a revolver?
If it's because you shoot your 617 better in single action (cocking the hammer first) ..... then maybe a double action carry gun is not for you, unless you invest the time and ammo to master the DA trigger pull.
I settled on the 1911 mostly for that reason: I shot my DA revolver very well if I thumbed the hammer back ..... but if I had to pull through the DA .... not so much. I was told that in a self defense situation, there would not be time to be thumbing the trigger back ...... the 1911's SA trigger most closely matched the SA trigger on the gun I had .....
The 1911, IMO, is also easier to conceal than a revolver: it is flat, so it rides IWB better than a revolver, that is ......well, round. I never did find a comfortable way to carry my sp101 IWB..... which incidentally also had a 3" barrel, weighed an oz. more than the EMP, had half the capacity (5 rounds vs. the 9+1 of the EMP) ..... it pushed a 158 gr Hornady XTP about the same speed that the EMP pushed a 124 XTP ...... but I didn't think anybody on the recieving end would notice the 34 grain difference, given the supersonic velocities involved
1911's can be spendy ...... good ones in 9mm especially so .....
The Ruger sR9c is, IMO, the best value in a CCW pistol out there- can be had for just over $400, reliable, good trigger, concealable .....
If cost is keeping you away from the range, then my best advice is learn to handload- a basic set-up will cost you less than $100, and save you around 50% on ammo...... and you'll learn quite a lot in the process. It's not that complicated, really.
Lots of great suggestions from some folks I have learned quite a bit from just perusing the forums over the years.
That said, I agree with the suggestion to rent some of the selections available nowadays at most ranges (used to be quite rare) or likewise go shooting with a buddy that has an 'enviable' inventory and buy him a round or two in return...
I think you will find, however, that almost certainly over time (not long at that) any full-size gun (revolver or semi) will loose its place as your primary CCW and become more of a HD or range gun.
I started out with the first gun I ever bought (hence my forum handle) and it was fine as I started carrying in the Winter months--Summer came around and I found it difficult to "adequately" conceal absent altering my Summer attire (T-Shirt, shorts). I now carry *almost always (today it's *24 degrees so if I go out I'll take my 92) either my Kel-Tec P11 or Glock G26 with a Beretta 21A BUG (course now a 'micro' .380 might be a better BUG choice as they weren't around at the time [Kel-Tec released their .380 and soon the copy-cats followed] but I digress).
In any event, isn't it an absolutely hoot to be shopping during the Holidays
?
Happy ThanksGiving to All!
That said, I agree with the suggestion to rent some of the selections available nowadays at most ranges (used to be quite rare) or likewise go shooting with a buddy that has an 'enviable' inventory and buy him a round or two in return...
I think you will find, however, that almost certainly over time (not long at that) any full-size gun (revolver or semi) will loose its place as your primary CCW and become more of a HD or range gun.
I started out with the first gun I ever bought (hence my forum handle) and it was fine as I started carrying in the Winter months--Summer came around and I found it difficult to "adequately" conceal absent altering my Summer attire (T-Shirt, shorts). I now carry *almost always (today it's *24 degrees so if I go out I'll take my 92) either my Kel-Tec P11 or Glock G26 with a Beretta 21A BUG (course now a 'micro' .380 might be a better BUG choice as they weren't around at the time [Kel-Tec released their .380 and soon the copy-cats followed] but I digress).
In any event, isn't it an absolutely hoot to be shopping during the Holidays
?Happy ThanksGiving to All!
Cheapshooter
New member
Box Mon, jimbob86 brought up a very good question to enhance your learning curve. Here are also some other things to ponder.
Why an exposed hammer revolver?
I might add, as far as "looks", i.e. no Glock, are you looking for a fashion accessory, or something to defend your life with?
9MM vs 45cap (or 40S&W). Are you really that afraid of recoil?
I can see other advantages to the 9MM like lower cost of practice ammo, and higher capacity for CCW. Although you give up the higher capacity advantage with a 9MM 1911. But the lighter recoil would he on the bottom of my list.
To give you a little peep into my thinking, here are some of my personal CCW hits, and misses from my safe.
Hot weather "anytime, anywhere" carry, and everyday BUG. Ruger LCP 380acp. Hit.
Moderate weather IWB carry clothing permitting, and cold weather BUG pocket carry. Again, clothing permitting, KAHR Arms CM9, 9MM Luger..Hit
Cooler to cold weather IWB carry. Springfield Armory XD40 Subcompct, 40S&W...Hit.
Cold weather coat pocket carry, and sometimes IWB carry. Ruger LCR 38 Spcl +P..Hit
Colt 1991a1 Compact, 45acp... Miss. Even though a compact (Officer's) model, it's all steel, and too heavy to be comfortable.
1927 Systema Colt, Full sized, Argentine copy of a 1911, 45acp.. Miss. Even heavier than the 1991a1 Compact.
Star B. Miss. Similar copy of a 1911 in 9MM. Miss. Again weight, and why carry a heavy 9MM with a single stack capacity?
E. German Makarov, Polish P64, CZ82. Miss. Great guns, fun to shoot, but chambered in 9X18 Makarov. A caliber almost identical in power to 380acp, but in guns larger, and heavier than any of the polymer "mouse guns" in 380.
Why an exposed hammer revolver?
I might add, as far as "looks", i.e. no Glock, are you looking for a fashion accessory, or something to defend your life with?
9MM vs 45cap (or 40S&W). Are you really that afraid of recoil?
I can see other advantages to the 9MM like lower cost of practice ammo, and higher capacity for CCW. Although you give up the higher capacity advantage with a 9MM 1911. But the lighter recoil would he on the bottom of my list.
To give you a little peep into my thinking, here are some of my personal CCW hits, and misses from my safe.
Hot weather "anytime, anywhere" carry, and everyday BUG. Ruger LCP 380acp. Hit.
Moderate weather IWB carry clothing permitting, and cold weather BUG pocket carry. Again, clothing permitting, KAHR Arms CM9, 9MM Luger..Hit
Cooler to cold weather IWB carry. Springfield Armory XD40 Subcompct, 40S&W...Hit.
Cold weather coat pocket carry, and sometimes IWB carry. Ruger LCR 38 Spcl +P..Hit
Colt 1991a1 Compact, 45acp... Miss. Even though a compact (Officer's) model, it's all steel, and too heavy to be comfortable.
1927 Systema Colt, Full sized, Argentine copy of a 1911, 45acp.. Miss. Even heavier than the 1991a1 Compact.
Star B. Miss. Similar copy of a 1911 in 9MM. Miss. Again weight, and why carry a heavy 9MM with a single stack capacity?
E. German Makarov, Polish P64, CZ82. Miss. Great guns, fun to shoot, but chambered in 9X18 Makarov. A caliber almost identical in power to 380acp, but in guns larger, and heavier than any of the polymer "mouse guns" in 380.