Constitutional Convention

Would a constitutional convention be positive or negative?

  • Positive

    Votes: 13 16.7%

  • Negative

    Votes: 65 83.3%
  • Total voters
    78
One of these days the Chinese will say no more. If we stay the course between now and then people who have lived off of welfare will suddenly find themselves holding checks that banks will not cash. They will be upset. THey also will have extremely limited options as they have NEVER provided for themselves. In fact many come from third generation welfare families who's only skill handed from generation to generation is playing the system. THey have no education, no work ethic, and no job skills.

What can we do between today and the day the Chinese cut off our source of borrowing to prepare for that day? If a con con is too dangerous, what options do we have?

I have some connection to both my Rep and Senator(and at least one of Voinovich's likely replacements). I can push a little and I think they will at least listen to what I say and consider it, even if they do not follow my advice in the end.

As it stands I see this country falling in upon itself in about 5 years(25 trillion debt, 35+% of budget services debt), ten at most(45+ trillion debt, 50+% budget services debt), and within a year would not surprise me(15 trillion debt, 20+% budget services debt). Russia went from a legitimate threat to ruins in less than one year. At the point at which world powers start talking about changing their foreign currency reserves from the hegemonies currency, it usually does not take long. There are some strong rumblings to this effectaround the world.

At that point, as a 25-35 year old male I will be holding a rifle whether I want to or not(in this situation everyone my age holds a rifle or gets a bullet in the head historically). What can be done to avoid that outcome?

Con Con is all I see. What other options are there(besides just letting the debt pile up and bankrupt the country).

Maybe the EU will bail us out in thanks for the Marshall plan...
 
The thing I find interesting in this thread thus far are the numbers, as of this writing 34 negative, 5 positive, and 415 views. Leaving out the folks who came back to post that means that (loosely) around 9% voted.

This seems to be a recurring theme in this country, 10% of the people haul most of the load, the rest just coast along.

Until we somehow increase the number of people who actively get involved in a push for change it will be an almost impossible task.

I think the impetus is there, as evidenced by our last election, it just needs the proper compass.
 
This pile of debt and out of control spending is not going to go away and we can not continue with it, so something drastic has to change.
Con Con is all I see. What other options are there(besides just letting the debt pile up and bankrupt the country).
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Oppressive times no doubt, comrade. But i have faith in the military and i support them when i can, i plan for the next election, and this time, aside from voting...i have volunteered to assist. Voice your opinion and don't let people think you are down with the status quo. Call for a convention, i don't think it will happen(and don't want it to happen) but the call sends a message nontheless. Term limits, campaign finance, gun rights... whatever floats your boat, pick one and work it. The Virginia gubbernatorial race is in my mind.

Overall, I predict a landslide for the far right, and will be working to those ends, because it makes me feel better to be involved, than not..:) I'm hopeing for another Reagan and the optimism that got us back to work...what we do best(aside from what some people think). Get out of my way, and let me make my bux.

So i guess all i got is...don't get overwhelmed by it, obviously common sense is kaput for the time being. Those who remember Viet nam/Watergate and then the Carter era know we have seen rough patches before. I'm sure those older than me, have even more tough times to recall.
 
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No.

The last constitutional convention started with a commission to resolve a navigation dispute between a couple of states and ended with the proposal of our current Constitution. Changes to the Articles of Confederation required the unanimous consent of the states, but the proposal for our current Constitution only required a 75% majority for adoption.

Once convened, a constitutional convention can propose ANYTHING.

BTW, the Articles of Confederation contained term limits (3 years out of 6 for legislators and 1 year out of 3 for the President) that were neatly disposed of in the current Constitution.
 
Really, there are only two things I would like added to the constitution. One would be an amendment for a balanced budget unless 2/3rds of the states and 2/3rds of both houses call for an emergency deficit. The other would be term limits.

Since we ALL know that'll never in a million years happen, we need the constitution interpreted in a manner that keeps in mind what the framers intended. It doesn't matter that nuclear weapons and GE miniguns exist today.

If the government overstepped it's bounds enough that a majority portion of America was prepared to challenge it by force, the military could do virtually nothing about facing 150+ million people who are reasonably armed. We don't need GE miniguns to challenge the government, but by God we should have the right to carry the same foundational tool our troops carry, the assault rifle. The people of Iraq have given us a darn fit with cell phones, 155 shells, and a few AKs. You also have to remember that if it got to that point, I dare say we'd be amazed at the military units that would be on our side.
 
I believe our constitution, as amended, is just fine. the problem is our politicians who disregard it for partisan political gain. This includes both sides of the isle. A con. conv. would encourage all the extremists on both sides to make a bunch of noise about what "we" need to make this country great. Some of those extreme opinions are on this thread. On July 12, 1974 I won the lottery. I was born a US citizen. This is and will continue to be the greatest country to live and work in. If there is the need, the constitution can be amended. We do not need a "re-do". The constitution is fine, we need to elect politicians who will honor it.
 
This is an interesting read.

There is an overtone to it that in a democratic state, the people and their opinions should not be allowed to override/modify a written document, one that mapped out and set down the majority of people's opinions 200+ years ago.


When did the constitution become a bible, written by an entity greater then men that were flesh and blood...


I tend to believe in democracy. Put measures to vote, institute policy. Simply put, put amendment questions in the referendum loop every four years and let the people speak. 75% is good enough for me.
 
The problem, YodaMage, is that this is not a democracy, nor was it ever intended to be.

Yes we have some democratic mechanisms in place. But a real democracy is a very scary thing.

That document, you sneered at, is what gives everyone the same rights and freedoms (even if it took awhile to do) as everyone else. In a democracy, the majority can simply vote your rights away.

They don't teach this stuff, anymore. Mores the pity.
 
The constitution is fine as it stands now.
We need law makers and politicians to acknowledge we have a constitution and abide by it's laws, privileges and principles.
The Fed has run wild and rode rough shod over the individual states so long they forgot who they work for and what principles guide and govern our society.

Just a note here. I see some people want to turn the USA into a socialistic European type state.
If that's what you want, take a hike.
You don't fix something that ain't broke.
 
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I think there is a general consensus among the lawyerball players that a convention can not be limited in scope.
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Far from clear, and only one of the issues that would tie things in knots for years.
 
The problem, YodaMage, is that this is not a democracy, nor was it ever intended to be.
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Correct Al, To carry it a step further, we are a
Constitutional Republic.
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Note the word "Constitutional" That means that all government is limited by the rights set forth in that "written document". when it works as it should, our elected representatives in congress/senate are our "proxy" to represent the will of "we the people". The problem is when we reach a level of bureaucracy that we are currently in, and "we the people" become a perceived inconvenience to the government representing it's own interests.


They don't teach this stuff, anymore.
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Not in public schools at least, not even basic "civics"
 
Off Topic Opinion: I believe, based upon prior postings, we will not see YodaMage for a while.

On Topic Opinion: If one were to follow Article V procedures, we would be safe from a rewrite of the Constitution. However...

We have only one precedent before us. The original convention that tossed the Articles of Confederation. Granted we received something much better, but there is no saying that a convention called today would result in something better....
 
What present values in society?

Define which ones you would use.

Would they be liberal societal values, conservative societal values, libertarian societal values, ultra-Christian societal values, athiest/agnostic societal values, what?

What of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights don't mesh with current societal values?

Free press and free religion? Get rid of those for an ultra-Christian or even ultra-Islamic societal value system?

Second Amendment? Get rid of that because current societal values say guns are bad?

I'd rather see us stay right where we are than run the risk of ending up with a 900+ page "Constitution" such as the one the European Union tried to hash out for well over a decade, one that dealt with incredible trivialities based on the "societal values" of a hugely disparate group of nations and their citizens.
 
"Even simpler:

con con: Something bad might happen

No con con: Something bad will almost certainly happen."


That's a ludicrous assertion.

"Something bad" happens all the time.

The nation has never crumbled, even when faced with a numerous depressions and recessions, including the Great Depression and 25% unemployment, a civil war, World War II, the Communist Scare of the 1950s, Watergate, etc.

If you start trying to microengineer the future based on what you THINK might happen, and on some arbitrarily selected set of "societal values," you're guaranteed of really screwing things up, not making things better. And, just what happens when societal values change, and those values no longer valid.

Another Constitutional Convention, right? Yeah, just so there can be even MORE micromanagement, more microplanning, more attempts at social engineering, and even more guaranteed failure points.

A looser, more flexible framework is FAR better than a restrictive one.
 
John - chill out. As Mike said - we have been through major crisises without the end of the nation and your Mad Max scenario where you wear leather pants and stand there with a rifle.

We even recovered from the Civil War and came out stronger. We faced the Nazis and Imperial Japan. We beat the Soviet Union without a war that would have destroyed civilization.

So the economy is nutty now - relax. Said by someone whose pension plan took a real hit. You are not going to get a bullet in your head over world currency markets.
 
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