Conspiracy: Substantiated Proof ? Never?

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Paul Revere

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For those of you being introduced slowly to the front line actions of conspiracy (ei; public mass shootings), let these very actions verify the proof of an underlying plot.

Don't expect Mike Wallace or Dan Rather to uncover a vast conspiracy to defraud the American people. That will NEVER happen. No editor of any major news media will ever let that happen. The media is a pawn of the conspirators, a pipeline of propaganda if you will. They are too valuable to the efforts of those that want a Global monopoly (the control of all people and markets worldwide).

What used to take the conspirator's puppets days, now takes less than 12 hours. Now, before any credible evidence is found to substantiate claims against gun shows (for example), puppet organizations like HCI go on full attack mode. The conspirators are growing very impatience. This should allow you to see through their rhetoric, deep into the propaganda that lies beneath it. It's not about the criminal acts of individuals anymore, it's about the "firearms" that are available to Americans.

Global monopoly is not possible with armed citizens, who are capable of resisting this take over. So the attack will always focus on "GUNS" after these incidents (like Forth Worth, Columbine, etc.) are initiated. Always.

Think of this conspiracy like an approaching storm. But you don't have Doplar radar, or any other electronic means of seeing its approach. You have to go outside, smell the air, look into the sky, know the signs.

No substantial media backed evidence will ever be laid out for your viewing of this conspiracy. We may never know who makes the calls, pays for the actions, or initiates this ungoing fraud. By the way, a conspiracy can only be successful when the objective and the actions of the conspirators (and their puppets) are secret. Many of their puppets don't even know they are participating in a greater plan.

So..step outside, take a look, you'll see it there. It's been there for some time. You just need to know what to look for. It's not a paranoia, or a suspicion, or a rumor. Those who have sought this type of power throughout history have left all sorts of evidence of their actions to achieve their goals. You just need to understand what these people are capable of (and what they have to gain), and then just watch the "evidence" pile up in front of your eyes.
 
I don't think there is a conspiracy here. There are anti-gun opportunists taking advantage of the deaths of people to pursue their own goals of banning of guns and boosting their own egos. It really has nothing to do with guns, the anti gun professionals will move on to animal rights or saving gay wombats or something they can use to solve their self esteem problems. The media has a lot to answer for here, the sensational way of reporting these incidents is encouraging more.
 
RA,

Do you trust YOUR government that much that their grab for your guns was orchestrated by some mammby-pammby-tree-hugging-wombat-gay-rights activist, and not by a government that simply wanted you disarmed for their own agenda and control?

If you do, that's fine.

But we don't.

There have ALWAYS been those who seek power over others. They exist now, and they are among us. They are as small as the abusive husband or wife, and as large as the president himself.

One would have to be blind not to see the pattern of freedom's degredation or it's source(s), or to recognize to what extent those who would have control are willing to go to, to get it.

Maybe this is all just evolution to you. But to us it is an insidious pattern to choice reduction and virtual slavery, something that has been happening by design from Day One of the human race.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.quixtar.com
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Yes it is evolution I suppose. Our politicians are not smart enough to orchestrate a conspiracy. They do what's popular and believe it or not the majority of people support tougher gun laws, misinformed though they are.
Don't look for conspracies where their is only stupidity. We always criticise the anti-gun side for having no evidence so where is some hard evidence to support any conspiracy theory ?
When I see it I will believe it but as yet I ain't seen anything credible.
 
Let's not go into the politics of Austrailia here. We are talking about America as it relates to us and our freedoms...the Constitution. The conspiracy has affected other countries, but they are nothing in the grand scheme of the objective, because they have NO Constitution or legally armed citizens.
 
I'm with RA on this. Analysis teaches us to look for the simplest solutions to mysteries. They usually provide the correct answers.

Scenario One:
Urbanization has resulted in a population that stopped hunting, then stopped shooting, then stopped owning firearms and now fears such tools and anyone who knows how to use them. Additionally, living conditions in such urban sprawls breed madness.

Combine this with the natural tendency of any government to gather power unto itself and the evolution of a new type of media: TV.

Crazy people kill. Individuals seek safety. Network executives seek ratings. Politicians seek to be perceived as "proactive".

Result: A disarmed populace delivered into the hands of the normal, historic, repeated life cycle decay of an advanced society that had it too easy.


Scenario Number Two:
An international conspiracy exists to divest and enslave us. The US is the stumbling block. So they begin to take over the government, the corporations and the Media. This takes several generations. (It perhaps dates back to the Civil War, given the "proof" provided by the Jim Crow laws.)

They set up this guy named Miller in the 1930's and then pay him to leave the country before trial. This paves the way for the Supreme Court, bought and paid for, to begin the disarmament scheme. In the 1960's, either because they engineered or took advantage of JFK's death, they move their plan foward, while preparing a teenage Bill Clinton and All Gore for their future positions in the NWO.

In the 1990's they begin to release their secret weapon....mind controlled individuals. These attack churches, hospitals, schools and Federal buildings, often using homemade bombs so as not to make it obvious that it's all a setup around firearms.

This paves the way for the media (bought and paid for) and the Congress (bought and paid for) to clamor for weapons confiscation.

Of course, if the "Puppet Masters" wanted to they could have banned all these weapons years ago with the Stockton shooting, since they already had control of the government. Surely, their powers are unlimited given their ability to keep thousands of co-conspirators silent thruout the generations.

Result: A disarmed populace delivered, on schedule, into the waiting hands of The Beast (who is fearful of firearms).

Again. I'll side with Rabbit. ;)
Rich


[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited September 16, 1999).]
 
Rich;
Hear, hear!
It sure is a shame all the nuts have to play "copycat", though, and in an apparently-accelerating manner, if you look at the number & frequency of publicized shootings by "nut-cases" in this country just since Coumbine.
The increasing prevalence of sociopathy (sociopaths are people apparently born missing the faculty we call "conscience") in particular, (and perhaps paranoid schizophrenia, though most paranoid schizophrenics aren't violent) accounts for the overall increase in violent or criminal activity in this country more than any other single factor, IMNSHO. Cynicism about the motives & intentions of your "fellow man" has some real survival value nowadays.

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
Great post Rich, I agree with scenario 1.
If there was a conspiracy behind these shootings wouldn't it be a good idea for the shooters to escape ?
There are people around saying Matin Bryant(shooter at PortArthur) was drugged or something and that there were other shooters as well. It's funny how none of the people there on the day noticed anyone else. But some Queensland nutcase (sorry HS it must be the heat) found that out from a video.
Well I know 2 people who were there when it happened who don't believe the theory of more shooters and I believe eyewitnesses over conspiracy theories any day.
Martin Bryant gave the reason why he shot everyone to his laywer but neither will say why. They hinted it was about him being famous. Well he got his wish unfortunately.

The sad thing is noone seems to want to know why these nutcases go crazy, no investigation on why he did it at all. It would makesense to study people like him you would think.
 
I think you can explain how life works by breaking it down to simple numbers.
80% of the population doesn't understand how things work and really don't care.
15% know how things work-but don't have any power to influence things except their own lives.
5% know how things work and control the other 95%!
It is really unfortunate to be in the 15% as you watch events unfold around you and feel powerless, frustrated and angry.
Especially angry at the other 80% who seem content (they are because they are just plain dumb!) to let others fool and manipulate them.
As for conspiracies?
The truth sometimes is like a skunk you buried in the back yard. When you least expect it, the smell comes back.
Examples: The Soviets did have spys everywhere in the 1950s. The CIA and the mob really did work together against Castro. And something hinky went on at WACO.
 
I'm not saying that every shooting that we have experienced is an orchestrated event.

Ceratinly not those that take out a few before their own self-inflicted termination.

I have to ask though, what happened to the Jewish center shooter that turned himself into the FBI? Any other news? Why?

And concerning those who would be in the know about a real conspiracy? How many discharged military people do you know that won't talk about certain things they were involved in even though those things were of a questionable nature? I know several individuals that were involved in the military who's mouths zip shut when asked about certain topics.

Here's just a few situations that don't add up as we have been told they should:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Waco. That smell of truth coming up again. How are they going to weasle their way out this time? I just viewed "Waco: Rules of Engagement" last night. Body language speaks louder that words... although Shakespear said it well, "Me thinks he protesteth too much." (in-exact quote) at the trial.

<LI>Ruby ridge.

<LI>Executive orders turning over land to the UN. Or reserving their use for "international" purposes. (need to research this one some more)

<LI>"New" evidence that surfaces regarding that commercial airline flight.

<LI>Vince Foster and missing files.
</UL>
When 2+2=5 or 3 it raises questions and eyebrows...

I do not believe entirely in Rich's theory #1, or his theory #2. A blend of the two seems to fit for me.

As I said in my first post, there are several sources...

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.quixtar.com
referal #2005932


[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited September 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited September 18, 1999).]
 
John-
I'll take a shot at this:

The Jewish Center shooter: He was a redneck, NeoNazi. No longer fits the media's profile for "good news". They've already gotten their mileage.

I know very few military types at Pentagon or Delta Op's level that will talk about any of their classified work....home or abroad. That includes several on this Board. It only demonstrates that they take the Secrecy Agreement very seriously and that our "leaders" prosecute vigorously.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Waco: ATF doing what the ATF does: Grandstanding, looking for funding, wanting to play with the big boys, mindless of the Constitution, disinterested in citizens and raising the bar for the qualifiacations for a FUBAR. Add in a President that wanted to make a national statement, if you'd like, and an AG reminiscent of the Gestapo. That's not a "conspiracy"...it's an "abuse of power". While it may be considered murder, we need not look for a Global Master Plan.

<LI> Ruby Ridge: See my comments on Waco.

<LI> Executive Orders turning over US lands to the UN: Could you provide a source, please? Not that "Exec Order Bill" is incapable. I personally think he hopes for a position there if he ever leaves office. But a reference would help.

<LI> Commercial Airline Flight: I'm aware of no "new" evidence. Again, source please? I would be willing to grant the possibility of international terrorism, covered up by the Clinton White House. But how is this "conspiracy" vs malfeasance?

<LI> Vince Foster: See previous comments about the President and the AG. You don't need to be Illuminati for such actions, just a very dirty politician.</UL>

As for your first post, you don't mention anything about several sources, so you've lost me.

I don't really think I disagree with you on anything you've mentioned other that what it should be called.

While each is appalling and worthy of our unending demands for truth, it hardly points to an IMF takeover of the US. :) I don't want to put words in your mouth as you hardly suggested such....but that's the stuff that comes to my mind when I think of modern conspiracy theories.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited September 18, 1999).]
 
Okay.

Point for point.

My last response was not an exact quote (I had to hunt for it, too) <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>One would have to be blind not to see the pattern of freedom's degredation or it's source(s)...[/quote]

The commercial airline (Flight 800)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty_com/19990914_xcjod_government.shtml

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But on the heels of the Waco exposure, the major media ignored hard evidence in the form of recently released radar data that the government has been lying big time with respect to the evidence in the crash of TWA Flight 800. A group called the Flight 800 Independent Research Organization (FIRO) got the data from the National Transportation Safety Board in June, after having been stonewalled for two years.

The NTSB had pawned off on the press and the public radar data that showed only radar targets that at the time of the explosion were within a circle with a 10-nautical-mile radius, centered on the crash site. Four of the eight ships in that circle were three to six nautical miles from the center. When the plane blew up, the ship that was closest hightailed it out to sea doing 30 knots, not pausing to see if it could be of assistance. The FBI claims not to know the identity of this ship, and it refused to identify the other three for privacy reasons. After he retired, Jim Kallstrom, who headed the FBI investigation, told me that those three were "Navy vessels that were on classified maneuvers." That's on tape.

The radar data also showed an additional 25 ships that were 10 to 25 nautical miles from the crash site. Their behavior is startling. Ten of them were in a military warning zone, W-105, that had been declared off limits to non-military ships that day. Fourteen of them were on nearly parallel courses that would soon take them into W-105. Four of the five that were closest to Long Island were on similar courses that would take them into W-105. Four of the ships heading for the off-limits zone were traveling at 30 to 34 knots, speeds characteristic of warships, not freighters.

All of this suggests that all or nearly all the ships mentioned above were warships. Eyewitness and forensic evidence indicates that TWA 800 was hit by one or two missiles that might have come from those warships. The Navy's defense is to deny that any warships were close enough to have done that. It took over a month for it to admit that W-105 was activated at the time of the crash. It then said no ships had "checked in to use it," but the radar data show that 10 ships were in the warning zone at the time of the crash and that another 18 probably entered it soon after. It is most unlikely that these were private yachts or freighters bound for Europe.

The radar data showed some aircraft whose presence had not been disclosed. One was flying back and forth, partly over the warning zone and partly beyond its northern border. It was making tight U-turns, slowing down and speeding up. No one has yet explained its strange behavior.

The new radar data also expose a serious fraud. The FBI got the CIA to produce a video animation to discredit the many eyewitnesses who saw something streaking upward, intersecting with TWA 800 and blowing it up. The CIA video claimed that what they really saw was the plane pitching up after its nose was blown off and climbing three thousand feet, trailing burning fuel. The radar proves that this did not happen. It shows that after the nose was blown off, the speed of the plane increased sharply because it was plummeting. If it had climbed, it would have slowed down.
[/quote]
The site: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_excomm/19990910_xex_twa_800_and_.shtml

Ooops.... UN land... I gotta chuckle at myself. I'll look into that a bit further before I'll comment any more on that... However, here are a few things that might be of interest. The question remains, "Why? What is the end goal?"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19980519_xex_inside_that_.shtml

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19990211_xex_clintons_lat.shtml

The Jewish center shooter? I know the media milked that dry in about three days. I know they applied all kinds of lables to him, but that does not answer the question of where he is or what is happening to him. Really, the whole thing still smells of a set-up.

Vince Foster's death: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19990915_xex_foster_death.shtml

As far as Ruby Ridge and Waco being "conspiracies"? I guess it all comes down to how you define it.

As you said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't really think I disagree with you on anything you've mentioned other that what it should be called.
[/quote]

:)



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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.quixtar.com
referal #2005932
 
I know where John is getting the UN connection

I'll have to find it as I archived it when I formatted my puter 2 weeks ago...
Anyway, there is an EO Clinton made that deals with Lands designated as World Heritage/Historical Trusts or something along those lines...effectively locking them up for some kind of future heritage monuments that will be administered by the UN. Allegedly other countries have them as well...which is moot as I don't care if they give away their land ;)
It strikes me as very odd and illegal (if not it should be) for a Pres to be able to unilaterally lock up land and figuratively or effectively give it away to a non-US authority.

It will take awhile to find it...lots of CDs and diskettes to paw through

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Guy's thanks for the good info.
John-
Thanks for the head's up on the warships. Does seem a bit strange that a country would use an armada to take down it's own civilian jetliner when it could be accomplished by one little fishing boat and a Stinger.
Lotsa witnesses to unnecessarily muzzle. ;)
Rich
 
Rich;
You have presented two scenarios (Or as DQ would have said scenarioes), both of which are possible but as usual the truth is somewhere in between.
Look at most of the "conspiratorily staged" shooting events which coincidently took place during the Clinton administration.
I cant enumerate all of them because I am not a historian, but other than Mc Veigh has anyone ever come to trial? Can anyone NAME any of these guys? Who was the guy who fired 31 SKS rounds at the White House?
How many of these events played into the hands of the Anti's just at the time they had leglislation pending?

About the Executive Orders. There are official web sites that list ALL EO's. The fact is that oldslick HAS written most all of the NWO orders attributed to him.

Being a reasonable person :) I dont call one isolated incident a trend. but after a while and a whole lot of incidents you have a trend.

I really do believe that they are out to get all the guns.I really do believe that there is a conspiracy to take over the USA in the name of NWO.


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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Ed:
"Can anyone NAME any of these guys?"
Nope.
Can you name the guy that did the Stockton, Ca shooting? I can't.
How about the famous Marine sniper from the TX college building? I can't, though he's named in movies and constantly brought up on the media.
The perps in the World Trade Center bombing? By me.
The names of any of the Freemen? Who knows?
The woman who drowned her kids and then claimed kidnapping? I'm lost.
The Zodiac Killer? Uh,Uh.

The point is....what's the point? :)


"How many of these events played into the hands of the Anti's just at the time they had leglislation pending?"
How many occured when there was no legislation on the floor? Were they "dry runs"? "Misfires"? The fact is that violence occurs regularly. Mass violence occurs all regularly. "Key" gun proposals are circulating constantly. Just because a Schumer jumps in front of the cameras each time, doesn't mean he pulled the trigger. (Schumer would jump in front of the Good Humor truck if it had a canera mount...I wish they did! :))

Let's not confuse exploitation with organization.

You're right when you say that a whole lot of incidents form a trend. The trend some see is a trend in the organization of these events. The trend I see is in their exploitation. Subtle, but important, nuance here.
Rich
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"The fight for safer kids will not be over even if Congress does the right thing now and closes the most obvious loopholes that allow kids and criminals to get guns."

-Sara Brady[/quote]

no shadow conspiracy here
its in Black & White

I know from experience that the more people involved the greater the impossiblity of having secrecy

The American Rifleman rescued the world in 1945, now in 1999 we are a liability?

doc Zox

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will you stand with me in DC on 10-2-99?
http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/LibMarch
 
The Kodiac Killer?!?!

Oh! Zodiac....

Okay - I will reholster my HK here...

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
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