Considering First AR-15

J

Jaywalker

New member
This is my first post here, though I've been lurking for some time.

I'm considering an AR-15-type rifle, which is a first of type for me. Up to now, everything has been bought with deer-rifle needs in mind. I finally started realizing that the AR looks like fun and I'll likely shoot it more than I have my .270. I have a couple of general questions, if someone will start me on my search.

I've read good things about Bushmaster, so that's the direction I'll probably go. Can anyone suggest a good place to check prices?

I have located a few good sites (AR15.com, the Maryland AR-15 Shooter's Site, and a few others. Are there any other favorites that can help me learn?

I would like a lighter profile barrel than the heavy ones that predominate. Is there an aftermarket (can I sell the factory original) if I want to replace it with a lighter bbl., or would it make more sense to have a pound cut off the Bushmaster's? If milling is the best approach, what firms are best respected?

I've never fired an AR, but with all of the uppers, I assume it's relatively easy to detach them for storage or travel. What does "relatively" mean - 30 seconds or 5 minutes to disassemble/reassemble?

Thanks,
Jaywalker
 
Good choice!

Doesn't BM offer a fluted barrel? Could save the weight you're looking for.

I've owned three BMs. Awesome - each one.

As for takedown, with a BM (or any non-colt), it's literally seconds to seperate the upper from the lower. Make sure the carrier is forward (and the gun is unloaded!), Pull out the take down pin, pivot, pull out the pivot pin - done! Assembly's just as easy in reverse.

HTH,

LevelHead
 
You could get a government profile to lighten it up for you. Check out their M4 barrels. You don't want to buy a Bushmaster and then ruin it with some crappy aftermarket barrel do you?
 
JWalker - maybe I am insensitive to weight or see the merit to hvy barrels, but BM does have fluted barrels.

Level & Chickrepelent hit it on the nose - you want a BM barrel. That is part of what you are paying for - good chrome lined barrel.
 
AR 15

Rock River Arms may have displaced Bushmaster in recent reviews lately. I think cruffler did a recent review and gave them a "10".
Check out ---www.AR15.com
 
I have both a Bushmaster and Rock River. Both are good, reliable rifles. The fit and finish on the RR is excellent. According to the FFL who did the transfer, it was the finest he's ever seen. The only thing I'd change on either gun is that I'd lose the AK style muzzle break on the BM. It is VERY LOUD.
 
You might also wanna check out www.cavalryarms.com .They make their lower receivers out of glass-filled nylon which makes the rifle lighter and they stand behind their rifles with a NO BS lifetime warranty.Prices are compared to Bushmasters.
 
Think about an ArmaLite, too. I've heard there are some inventory shortages on Bushy products because of the Afghanistan situation. YMMV.

I bought an ArmaLIte M15A2 20" (military configuration) in June '01 for $800 NIB. I have about 1200 rounds through it (including 500 reloads) and one high-power match, with not one problem of any kind.

BTW, the muzzle brake is loud to everyone except the shooter. It does help with second/third shot control.
 
Thanks, all.

Mo_Zam_Beek and Levelhead, fluted barrels don't appeal to me and don't save enough weight; the government profile appears to yield a 7.5 pound weight in the 20 inch barrel, and that's my preferred variant. Thanks for the insight into disassembly - that was what I was looking for.

chickrepelent, the government 16 inch profile would be acceptable. I didn't think they made any currently for PostBan receivers. Can you point me to a Bushmaster URL, please? (BTW, as I write this, I've been unable to access the BM web site. I hope it's a short outage.)

Brooks, thanks, I'll check RRA out, but I'll probably end up with a Bushie.

Does anyone have a good reference for checking prices of various models?

Jaywalker
 
Jaywalker, I can't put up a link for you cause I don't know what I'm doing. They make a bare muzzle 16 inch M4 barrel and a 14.5 M4 barrel. They 14.5 would need a muzzle brake pinned and welded on the end to make it legal.
I quess you'll just have to keep trying their website.
 
Almost forgot, Ed at Gunsmoke will build you a rifle the way you want it. I build my own but buy parts from him. I can give you his number. (863) 763-1582
 
You can get the Colt AR15 SP1 which is the pencil-thin M16A1 barrel profile you are looking for. Also has the flash hider and bayo lug. Weighs somewhere around 6 or 6.5 pounds.
 
BigG, I should have mentioned that I'm limiting the search to the A-2 variants. I like the sights and some other things better.

chickrepelent, I found Gunsmoke onthe web, thanks. He has a lot of "PORs" up, so I don't really know what it costs. Are they competitve?

zanthope and Brooks, I want to stay with chrome barrels and chambers, non-SAAMI chambers, and 4150 steel. Unless my info is faulty, that leaves out Armalite and RRA.

Do I understand that the bushie come M4 variants come with government profile barrels?

Jaywalker
 
Bushmaster has two M4 barrels.

The first is the "real" M4, 14.5 inch, threaded, the works. Unless you have a preban reciever and a SBR permit, you can forget about that one. Oh.. I do believe they will send you a post-ban version with a permanently attatched brake.

The other is the "patrolmans" M4.. same funky milling on the barrel, but an extra inch and a half tacked on the end to make it legal. Far as I know, the milling dimensions as far as barrel width are to the gov. spec on both.

Bushmaster does carry said upper on a fake M4 lower, as well (ie non-collapsing collapsible stock). Personally, I think it's kinda pointless, but some folks love 'em.

Keep trying their website, or give 'em a call, and they'll send you a catalog. Heck, your local dealer prolly has a catalog you can see as well.

-K
 
Run a quick check over at AR15.com in the Equipment Exchange forum.

You can get some really good deals there as well as get a feel for what to pay for a particular weapon. Some local dealers are well into their crack smoking habits as this is the only way I figure they can justify the prices they charge.

Example. One dealer in my area wants $1150 for a BM AK Shorty model. You can get one for $800 easily. Save yourself several hundred dollars by shopping around.

Good Shooting
RED
 
Jaywalker, the Colt SP1 barrels can be had mix&match - that is you could use a lightweight SP1 barrel on an A2 upper receiver. The downside there is you will have a 1 in 12 twist that won't stabilize the heavier 5.56mm bullets (like the 62gr. round now standard for NATO).

If you are willing to drop down to 16", Bushmaster makes a lightweight barrel profile that is lighter than the M4 barrel and fairly easy to handle.

Last but not least, you could also check out Kurt's Kustom Firearms (has a website that is slow loading and poorly constructed but is well know at AR15.com) - this guy seems to do quite a bit of custom work on AR15s - including taking existing barrels and turning them down to whatever barrel profile you want. He also has some tactical breaks that look remarkably like the GI-issue birdcage flashhider. He even makes one that can permanently attach to the 14.5" M4 barrel to make it legal.
 
Bartholomew,
Thanks. I have included here the configuation I think I need, keeping in mind how theoretical my knowledge is:

A2 upper
A2 profile barrel
M16-sized chamber
4150 steel in lieu of cheaper 4140
A1 stock with A2 buttplate
chrome-lined barrel
chrome-lined chamber
chrome-lined bolt
standard pins

In addition to these, I prefer the 20-inch barrel, and a 1-9 twist. I don't really want to go to 1-7, but I could conceivably make do with a 16-inch barrel. Are there any factory loads that have minimal muzzle flash out of the 16-incher?

I think the closest factory rifle to these needs is a Bushmaster, though even they don't advertize any post-Ban government profile 20-inch barrels. (Gunsmoke has some pre-Ban barrels that they will fit permanently with brakes to comply with the law.)

I have indeed sent Kurt's Kustom an email with some questions - price, availability, and how he manages to prevent button rifled barrel stresses from becoming bent barrels in the machining process.

Also, in response to Brooks' and cwalker3's postings, I investigated Rock River; while the quality looked good, they weren't as close to my desired configuration as BM - 4140 steel and no chroming.

In short, I think I'm almost there, with only the barrel configuration left. The 16-inch M4 just might work for me. As others here have noted, I really "need" both lengths, and it matters little which I buy first!

Jaywalker
 
Jaywalker, sounds like you are pretty much limited to Bushmaster or Colt for your rifle. Either that or you'll need to reconsider how important each of the criteria you listed are to you. It sounds like you've done some research, so I'll assume you already know what you want.

Personally, I prefer Bushmaster - and it sounds like you are leaning that way yourself.

If you need the government profile and you are concerned about having the barrel on the rifle turned down, I'd advise trying two things:

1) Call Bushmaster and see if they offer a government profile barrel in post ban configuration (Never hurts to ask)

2) Buy your upper separate from the rifle and buy a pre-ban government profile barrel. Send it to a gunsmith (like Kurt's Kustom) to have the bayo lug "neutered" and have a muzzle break of some sort attached.

You can either have them grind the lug off entirely or (if you like the "military" look) you can have them just grind off the "wings" on the edge so that the lug is still present but no longer functional.

Permanent attachment of the muzzle break will also give it a "stock military" appearance although I personally dislike them on AR-15s because they are A) loud and B) serve little useful purpose on a semi-auto 5.56mm. However, they do look better aesthetically I think. You might ask if they can attack a "fake break" over the threads that would be postban legal if you don't care for the noise.

Last, using military issue ammo is a great way to reduce flash since that ammo has a flash retardant mixed in with the powder. http://www.ammoman.com/ is currently selling 2000 Lake City surplus M193 ball for 5.56mm at $199/1000.

Also check: http://www.aaconsult.com/ammoreview/html/_223_reviews.html

If you don't like flash, avoid PMC.

Edited to add:

Knight's is a great company too that may be able to help you; but they aren't cheap.
 
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