considering a 357 magnum....

"just out of curiosity what makes Taurus inferior?"

Confidence, mostly. Confidence and the knowledge that historically, Taurus revolvers have been hit-or-miss quality-wise. If you get a good one, it will be about as strong and reliable as a S&W but the trigger will be about like a Ruger -- not bad, but not a S&W. If you get a bad one, it will keep on giving you problems, and I heard that their service after the sale isn't all that great -- but I have exactly 0 first hand experience to back that up, so take it with a grain of salt.

"...and how the newer S&W's arent as durable as the rugers, why is that?"

Well, right offhand, there's these:
A> Trigger lock "zit" on the side is a route for crud to get into the internals, could lead to a crud related failure.
B> 2 piece barrel is potentially weaker.
C> Amount of metal in the cylinder/frame -- Ruger is just built "beefier".

I'm sure I can think of others, but those'll do. Note that you can still get good S&W L frames on the used market for really reasonable prices -- I got mine less than a year ago for $300. And since it is an old one from the early '80's, it doesn't suffer from A> or B> above. And the C> reason is really academic, unless you are handloading some REALLY hot loads or running really hot "Ruger Only" stuff from the likes of Buffalo Bore. L frames will comfortably handle most anything you're going to feed them.

Again, it is only a matter of degree, the L frames are plenty strong enough to handle steady diets of hefty Mag loads day in and day out, the difference is only going to be noticed on the extremes.

"I wondered about Taurus before I ever even found this site because they (atleast the models/calibers I am interedsted in, havnt paid much attention to the bigger calibers like Raging Bull comes in) are so much cheaper."

They are that. And like I said, if you get a good one you get a good one, but if you don't you don't. From what I've heard, they've been improving, if you do opt for a Taurus you will PROBABLY be ok. From a price and quality standpoint, you might be better off going the route that I did -- not get a new model at all, but get an older used Ruger or S&W in really good (Like New, in my case :D) condition for less money than even a new Taurus. Just be sure you know how to determine if a wheelgun is in good condition before buying. There's a good checklist right up at the top of this forum that tells you just what to look for and how to do that.
 
"also what cartridges/manufacturer/grain etc do you suggest for target shooting, and for self defense shooting even though (as I think I have said) my 12 gauge is the home defense gun. is there a good one that fits all the uses? not the best for EVERY use but pretty good for all of them?"

Target shooting -- well, for day-in and day-out target shooting: plain old paper punching, in other words, I'd just shoot standard velocity .38 specials. As far as what bullet is concerned there are several options. The 148 gr lead wadcutter is the gold standard here -- light recoil and extremely accurate. Lots of folks (myself included) shoot 158 gr lead semi-wadcutters, which are just about as good, and tend to be cheaper. BTW -- wadcutters and semi-wadcutters cut nice, clean holes in the target. Nice. You can also get plain-old 158 gr lead round nose bullets pretty cheap, but they don't cut the nice pretty holes. As long as you shoot nice, mild loads the lead bullets are just fine, but lead bullets will foul the barrel at velocities much over 900 fps -- if you are going to be shooting at those higher velocities you'll need to shoot jacketed bullets. I have found that the WWB 100 round value pack FMJ's at WallyWorld shoot ok and are fairly reasonably priced. As far as what brand to shoot: Well, it all depends on how much you want to spend and how clean you want your hand and gun afterwards. Personally, since I clean mine after every range session, dirty ammo isn't a big issue, so I end up buying the remanufactured stuff from Mastercast or Georgia Arms, I can get that stuff really cheap and it works well -- it is just smokey and sooty. I've just recently bought a reloading press and since I've managed to collect about 3000 .38 spl cases, I'm probably not going to buy anymore factory ammo for target purposes, period. It is cheaper and more consistent to roll my own, and that much brass will probably last me for many years. It is a nice thing about wheelguns -- they don't chuck brass everywhere so it is easy to collect the empties.

SD ammo: There are several schools of thought on that. Some claim to the light and fast camp -- usually around the various 125 gr .357 Mag JHP's. Some claim to the heavier and not as fast camp -- like with the various 158 gr .357 Mag JHP's. Some (like me) end up not using .357 Mag at all, but load up with .38 spl or .38 spl +p's -- I have loaded in my 686 Speer Gold Dot 125 gr .38 spl +p's for SD purposes. There are arguments that can be made for all of the above, and against all of the above -- holy wars and such that I'd rather stay out of. A popular SD load is the .38 spl +p 158 gr LSWCHP's that are produced by several manufacturers, commonly known as "the FBI load". It is an older load but is proven effective. You just have to watch out for barrel leading if you shoot it much, it is after all a +p load with a soft lead bullet. For the recoil adverse some advocate just loading those standard pressure .38 spl 148 gr WC's -- light recoil, and they cut clean holes in more than just paper. Federal also has a .38 spl 110 gr JHP load that is supposed to be the answer for the light/fast camp while still being a standard pressure .38 spl.

As far as having the same SD and target ammo: I'd avoid that, just because of the price differential. I've noticed that at closer SD ranges that my revolver prints both my usual target ammo as well as both my SD .38 +p and the various .357 Mag loadings (I usually use the 158 JHP's) pretty darn close. Close enough that you can just shoot enough SD ammo to verify where it will print and then just shoot target ammo day-in and day-out. An inch difference at 7 yards isn't going to make any difference to the BG.

Keep in mind that a lot of the reason for shooting the same target and SD ammo in the auto world is making sure that the pistol functions properly with the SD ammo. That isn't the case in the wheelgun world, proper feeding and ejection isn't a problem. As long as you have shot enough of your SD ammo to be confident in where it prints, you can just keep a small-ish supply around for SD purposes and then shoot cheap-o stuff for target practice. Quite frankly, I've got 18 rounds of those Gold Dots on hand -- 6 in the gun and 2 speedloaders. In another couple of months I'll shoot them up at the range and get me another box of 20, and then shoot the remaining 2 rounds from the end of the box. Or, I might switch brands. Nah, I'm confident in what I've got.
 
also what cartridges/manufacturer/grain etc do you suggest for target shooting
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That’s going to depend on what you can get locally and the price. Talk to the guys at the local ranges. You can target shoot with .38’s but try to use as many .357’s as you can afford.
and for self defense
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Federal .357 Mag, 158 grain, Hydra-Shok, JHP.

Remember… this is the round that you are staking your life and your family’s life on.

My philosophy on this is very simple… Stop the threat. If I am in an encounter with an armed bad guy, I could care less about what the wound in him is going to look like or how many feet per second my round will travel. I want to hit him with a round that will cause him to not be able to return fire; the federal I mention above will do this. If you check around you will probably find that this is considered to be the second best handgun round for this purpose.

is there a good one that fits all the uses? not the best for EVERY use but pretty good for all of them?
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Nope.
 
panzer

You raise allot of issues that have been discussed on TFL time and time again. When it comes to guns, bias is not a bad thing.

What you get is well published, predictable biased opinions. I think the answers to all of your questions comes down to, which one do you like? I don't think you're going to buy a gun based on any of our opinions, right?

So go buy the 686 and relax... ;) :D :D

I don't think I'll be carrying around a 6" revolver anytime soon.
 
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well thats the problem, I like ALL of them. almost every revolver, auto, shotgun and rifle. in rifles, shotguns and autos I know what I like and I know what I like about them as far as functionality, durability and so on. revolvers I dont know very well. growing up dad had a bolt action 22 hornet, a winchester 94 30-30, the two shotguns I have now and the ruger standard 22 pistol I have now. the only experience I have with revolvers is with a cimarron 45 long colt that was a peice of crap (sorry to all of you who like them, mine sucked). it was extremely accurate, recoil was minimal (no hot loads though as I was told it would be dangerous) and I loved it for the first 3 weeks. I took what I thought was pretty good care of it and in the end of the third week a peice fell out and after that the only way to cock (at all, single action with the different hammer cock stages) was to point the barrel level or up, barrel down at the slightest angle and it wouldnt catch. then the (brain fart cant think of the term) lever on the side so you can load it wouldn't stay up in the loaded position. I didnt fire it after the part fell out. on the fifth week I took it to a gunsmith who told me repairs that would hold up on it would cost as much as the gun did brand new (was new in box when I got it) and also told me there was a small crack in the barrel, mus have been from the very last shot I fired because he thought 1 more shot would split the barrel open.
so I value firing line members opinions very much in this subject especially. tell me that a CZ 45 auto is the best match to my needs (if I listed needs for an auto) and I would not listen because although I know very little about CZ firearms, I dont like the look or feel. my two fav 45's are HK USP and 1911's. before posting this topic I was leaning towards either the 686 or GP100. I prefer the looks of the 686, but not by much and I prefer the feel and weight/balance of the GP100 (havnt fired either though, that will be the deciding factor) but again, that preference is not by much. shooting them both will deffinetly decide the issue since the plan is for both my wife and myself to be comfortable with the gun, my hands are quite a bit bigger than hers, big enough that the desert eagles are not uncomfortable (again, never shot one). so...no I wont base my decision solely on what you guys (and girls?) say, but it will certainly be considered.
anyway, I greatly appreciate all the opinions/suggestions and advice you all have given me.
 
+1 on the L-frame S&W. The Ruger GP100s are also good as well as the Security and Speed Six models. They will all handle the .357 Mag wonderfully, while offering excellent accuracy.
 
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