Confederate Symbol Controversey

I not go into the historical details, but only look at the emotional issue here.
Some see the flag as an evil symbol of slavery and war. Not much I can do about that and I won't waste time argueing with you.
To many Southerners, myself included, its a symbol of pride. A symbol of a time when Honor was all important and a man's word was better than any piece of paper. Its a symbol of self reliance and yet still be willing to help a neighbor. Its a symbol of people who got sick of government interference in their lives and told 'em to stick it where the sun don't shine. Its a symbol of people who stood up for what was right regardless of the cost. Its a symbol of courage, hope and dignity.
The "Stars and Bars", its about heritage, not hate.

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There's no such thing as too much love, too much money or too much ammo.
 
Per Hitler, the Nazis swastika was a reversed image of that used by American Indians/or Hindu-Bhuddhist. The original swastika was even painted on the inside of the propellor nose on Lucky Lindy's Spirit of St. Louis.

I would concur that the Stars & Bars (more correctly known as the Confederate Naval Ensign or the Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia) is symbolic of the Southern Cause for independence (slavery was not the issue). However, like the swastika or more modernly, the Imperial German Flag (Iron Cross and Prussian Eagle), the Stars & Bars has been adopted by some hate-mongers and the reaction by others is to be expected.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by George Hill:
I just LOVE how you can drive down Monument Blvd and look at the statues off famous Generals... and one Tennis Player. WTF?

[/quote]

A former editor of mine once referred to Monument Avenue as "The world's largest collection of second place trophies."

I don't see why the Arthur Ashe statue isn't at the tennis courts at Byrd Park...instead, they've got a statue of Columbus! Say it louder....WTF?!?

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*quack*
 
beemerb, amen. If we all stopped hating each other for invented reasons we might be able to fix some of these social messes we are in.
To me the flag is associated with heritage, honor, and pride. To some it is a reminder of pain. I just hate that the plaque was removed because GWB wants to be prez and got intimidated by the NAACP, it's hard to respect any group who uses whining and threats for tactics.
Sharpton and Jackson do more harm than good, they get press coverage for being idiots and others think that is what they need to do to get the same coverage, unfortunately its true.
Either way it doesn't matter, people always find something to complain about. If it wasn't the flag it would be some other trivial thing. The world is full of morons with too much time on their hands.


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Beware the three D's: The dumb, drunk, and deranged. Chadintex@hotmail.com
 
No, the Swastika is slightly different from that native american symbol.

That didn't stop the PC-Police from having it removed from a school floor in Michigan!

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I am not a dangerous psychotic!
I just play one at work.
 
"Shortly before the United States was dragged into World War II someone in the War Department noted that the 45th Infantry Division, a National Guard outfit from New Mexico, had a rather unfortunate shoulder patch, considering current political trends. The "shoulder sleeve insignia" in question combined a certain native-American symbol with the traditional Spanish colors. This symbol was unfortunately identical to that used by a certain political movement just then immensely successful in Europe. As a result, the 45th Division's gold swastika on a red lozenge became a thunderbird on a red lozenge. Meanwhile, Native-American artists and artisans lined up to sign pledges that they would eschew the use of their ancient symbol, besmirched as it was by its modern associations. It might be noted that authentic copies of the original insignia are the most valuable of U.S. military patches."

Dirty Little Secrets of World War II, James F. Dunnigan and Albert A. Nofi, page 124.
 
The Indian symbol which is similar to the swastika has the ends turned/pointed in the opposite direction. To most people however they appear identical. "Whats that you are holding in the picture Granddad? Thats the head of a nazi son! No...no thats an army helmet." (King of the Hill)
 
If you're going to argue about this, you should at least know what flag you're talking about.

The Stars & Bars was the national flag of the Confederacy. It had a blue field, with a circle of stars in the upper left hand corner, and 3 broad stripes - 2 red, one white. Except for the stars in a circle, and the 3 stripes instead of 13, it looked much like the US national flag.

The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, or the St. Andrew's Cross, is the "rebel flag" that there is so much controversy about. Two entirely different flags.

If you don't know enough about your history to know the difference, you look foolish when you talk about "defending your heritage". How can you defend your heritage, if you're not even interested enough to learn what it is? Any of your facts are questionable when you muck up one obvious one.

The more I hear people who support the Battle Flag call it the "Stars & Bars", the more I think it's time it came down. Maybe some controversy would encourage people to learn more about the Confederacy & why it was formed.

BTW, my ancestors mostly served in the Army of Tennesee, my family's been in Ga. since 1789. I am not against any flag, only the attitude of "I'm going to support it, even if I don't know anything about it." Equally appalling, to me, as the Yankee Carpetbagger(down here, that's an insult) attitude of "you guys lost, so forget about the whole thing!" Should we just forget about Vietnam, too?
 
Danger Dave is 100% correct about the flags. After reading his post I did a search of the web under Confederate flags and shooo nuff he was right!
 
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more display of the Bonnie Blue flag.
Real Southerners know the true meaning, and IMHO, would send a more powerful message to the liberal sheep. ;)
This is the same flag that's incorporated into the Texas and North Carolina State flags, just as other flags of the Confederacy were incorporated into other Southern State flags.

N.C. Div. SCV, Camp 668

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"Rise like lions after slumber in invanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - They are few."
-Percy Bysshe Shelly (1792-1822)
 
Danger Dave,
You are correct sir. The Stars and Bars is not the battle flag. I myself am guilty of the mistake even though I know better. However, remember the people you are dealing with. Most of them don't know crap about the Confederate States or the war of northern aggresion. What little they think they know comes from hollywood and liberals. I guess I've fallen to their level so that they can grasp what I'm trying to say. Just take it one step at a time. I will be more careful in the future.
BTW: The flag of the Army of Virginia or very slight variations of it was also used by many other Confederate units including the Army of Tennessee. It was probably the most commonly used design. That's why its so recognizable.

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There's no such thing as too much love, too much money or too much ammo.
 
DorGunR

The swastika was a symbol of good luck for various cultures, ranging from Native Americans to Hindu to Pennsylvania Dutch. That is why Hitler took the identical symbol and used it as his.

The swastika may not be identical to the exact symbol you're thinking of, but I've seen a symbol in Native American art that was identical to that on any Kraut vehicle or flag in WWII.
 
I re-read my post, I think I was a bit harsh. The only defense I have is I've been sick all week, and I'm known for being unpleasant when I'm not feeling good....

However, if I ticked someone off enough to get them to look into it, that's a good thing, IMHO.

I just really think people should have some familiarity with the pertinant facts before they try to cram their opinions down your throat.

And yes, the St. Andrew's Cross was widely used by Confederate armies. But I think the fact that it's the more recognizable of the two flags is due more to recent history than it's role in the War Between the States - Everybody who wanted to be viewed as a "rebel" adopted the Battle Flag as their symbol (e.g. Harley-Davidson riders).

History is seldom given even a passing interest these days - I bet more people know the name of Bo & Luke Duke's car than know why there is a National Cemetary at Arlington, Va.
 
http://www.icss.com/usflag/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

Try this link. It shows the Cross, the stars and bars, and the time line for changes of each. It explains a little of why they were different and even ends with some discussion of how a Southern gentleman can lose with dignity.

How can we allow the "X generation", the neo-nazis, and others to proudly display their symbol and jointly declare a piece of our own history as evil? Literally putting the Confederate battle flag into the same category with the Nazi swastika?

Have we finally beaten white men down so low that we are ashamed of our own heritage while we encourage others to learn about their own, even when we often share the same civil war legacy.

We, as a country, seem to be addressing this in a manner that bespeaks only shame. Shame specifically heaped on white Southerners for ever having participated in owning slaves in the first place. Shame for having stood up for what we believed. Slavery existed for millenium before it ever came to the South. The real shame comes from not taking our own advice. Learning from our own history and pointing out to the world what can happen (the bloodiest war in history) when we choose to fight amoung ourselves.

Now we argue about rights and freedom and ignore the price that has already been paid over and over again to win them. We seem reluctant to give over our sons and ourselves to continue that fight as a country or as a people.

God forgive us and save us.
 
I attended The Military College of South Carolina (The Citadel) in the mid to late 70s and at that time we carried /displayed the Battle Flag at Sporting events, when the football team scored (not that often) we would stand and sing as the band played "Dixie". We were proud to claim credit for firing the first shot of the war.
All this was to honor those who had given their all to the idea of Duty, Honor, Country.
Since then the flag and the song has been banned from all school events by the administration. We now fly the South Carolina Flag of Succession (red background with white crescent moon and palmetto tree).This is a flag that flew over the state after it succeded from the union and has a strictly political history but the liberals and PC thugs don't know enough to know what it represents. I guess I'm saying that dealing with ignorant people can have it's advantages.

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WFM
Life NRA, LLEA, Quail Unlimited,Ducks Unlimited
 
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