Concealed (?)

I think that many of you who carry a lot and become very comfortable with concealment don't realize that there are times when you can be "made" and not know it. I keep reading post after post saying, "I've done this and no one ever knew". Perhaps it is true most of the time, but just because nobody called the police or made a scene does not equate with invisibility. There have been many instances that I have noticed someone concealing. I probably am more aware than the average sheeple, but I still count as noticing. I usually think to myself, "Hey that guy is carrying. I wonder what he's packing." Then I go about my business. I generally assume that the person has a right to carry and is not doing anything illegal. There may be some anti-gun people that notice and think bad things, but do not say anything.
What this long-winded post is trying to say is, just because nobody ran screaming or called the cops does NOT mean that no one noticed.
Just my 2 pesos.
 
Good point Chipperman.

I guess one good way to learn if you are printing or not is to ask your friends/family if they ever notice that you are carrying, to let you know. They will look for it from time to time and may notice something that others do too, but won't tell you.

If there is doubt as to whether or not you are printing, (you can't always tell by looking in a mirror), carry something of similar size, weight and shape for a while. Sometimes peoples eyes will move to glance at things that look out of place, or unbalanced. Eg. An irrelevant bulge at one side w/be less noticable w/a bulge on the other.

"It would be nice to live in a culture in which we need not fear the whimp or those who cater to the insecurities of the whimp, by punishing good guys with guns." -Something Col. Cooper might have said.

robert

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
There is a story, the truth of which I cannot confirm. A cop, spotting a cross-back shoulder holster strap under a man's coat as he bent over to reach inside his car, was supposed to have said, "Excuse me, sir, but unless you are wearing a brassiere, you better have a badge or a permit."

It was a badge, not a bra.

Jim
 
224,
I'm glad you got the message through to you rookie coworker. I am LEO also so I won't have a CCW to lose but I know if I was "made" it might get back to my department. I wouldn't want to be in that position because an IA would follow.

For all people carrying concealed firearms: an LEO in Rhode Island was killed recenty because responding officers didn't know he was a cop. Something to remember.
 
I am confused and would appreciate some help regarding the crux of this thread.

In Virginia, non-concealed carry is generally allowed by statute (there are some individuals, like convicted felons, and some venues, like police stations, where non-LEO cannot carry firearms). Concealed carriage is also relative non-problematic, since Virginia is a "shall issue" state. So, in sum, the Commonwealth normally permits sidearms to be carried.

If I am carrying concealed with a valid permit and another citizen is alarmed that I am legitimately exercising my rights, how/why can I be arrested for "creating a public disturbance", "disturbing the peace", and so forth? I would appreciate LEOs and others who are knowledgeable -- particularly regarding Virginia law -- to reply to this question.
 
i think that in all of this one important point is lost. a concealed weapon is supposed to be just that, concealed. to put yourself in a situation where cops and civilians can notice your weapon is stupid and dangerous. first your concealment is a tremendous tactical advantage. if you are in a situation where BG's are shooting and they notice you are carring or have spotted you as carring before it goes down, you WILL be shot! if they suspect you of being a plain clothes or off duty cop they will probably shoot you in the head as they may suspect body armor. if you are armed and no one knows it you may be able to draw and fire at a moment of greatest tactical advantage. part of the pride of "packing" to me is first a solid, dependable weapon. accurate, reliable and deadly. second is a carry system that takes advantage of the clothes you are wearing that does not stand out or SHOUT GUN. the third is the security it give me and my family.
several years ago i joined an indoor gun range. one day i saw my next door neighbor at the range. he was two lanes down shooting a 4" 681 S&W. i noticed when he got finished he reloaded his revolver and reholstered it in an IWB holster. his flannel shirt covered the gun's smooth wood grip and holster. i was amazed because i had known him for several years and i did not know he even carried a gun!! i approached him and struck up a conversation. i remarked that despite seeing him every day for the past few years i had not noticed he carried. he told me he carried every day and asked if i would not tell anyone about it. he explained that the only one that should ever know that you are carring a gun is the one that makes you draw. and as my neighbor said. "God help him."

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one.--And they said. Lord here are two swords. And he said unto them. That is not enough. Luke 22-36,38
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
 
I have to laugh when I read of people who insist on their abilty to conceal hand cannons on a day in day out basis. It is funny to see that guy you know is carrying in that unexpected 80 degree room, sweating bullets - but he will not take off that sweatshirt/coat that is keeping him from being "made". Practical concealed carry is a little different. To each his own.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally blathered by Jim Keenan:
DVC, I am not going to try to tell you anything. If you want to have your gun sticking out so everyone will know you are carrying, go ahead. But don't be surprised if you find yourself explaining all that legal business to some unamused cops. [/quote]

1) I never said *I* carry .50 AE Desert Eagle. I was using it as an example.

2) People do come in all shapes and sizes. Take Lou Ferrigno (bodybuilder, incredible hulk star) for example. The man has HUGE hands... a Desert Eagle is small for this
man. Suggesting that he carry something "smaller" so he wont be "made" is an infringement on HIS rights. What if the
gun that YOU recommend that he carry is too tiny for him to operate during a life/death
situation?

Just because Jim Keenan can not carry a large gun without being made doesn't mean that other people cant.

I've carried a S&W Model 29 with 4inch barrel in a Greg Kramer IWB holster in the past. I was never made. It wasn't uncomfortable. It didn't print. A white t-shirt tucked in my jeans and a button down casual shirt with the tails out was all that was required to conceal it.
 
Hi, RWK,

The idea that you can't be arrested if you are "exercising your rights" sounds great. But it is the old bit about freedom of speech not covering shouting "fire" in a theater.

If anyone, by his actions, causes reasonable people to be in fear of their lives or to panic, that person will probably be found guilty of creating a disturbance or some similar charge, or worse if someone is injured. Freedom of speech is pretty basic, but try the theater bit, or try joking about hijacking at an airport check-in.

Gun people tend to forget that others are often fearful of guns. Whether that fear is justified or not, it is "reasonable" in law. Saying that if someone is frightened of your gun they are a psycho, or they are crazy, or they are at fault will not cut it.

There are some people who forget that with rights come responsibilities and, for a legal CCW carrier, concealment is not only one of the responsbilities, it is a legal requirement in nearly all CCW states.

Jim
 
Two days week-ends vaction has a lot of things to missed on the forum. So, here I am again to answer and contribute some.

Yes Erik, it sounds like that, we need to have concrete evidence justifying the claims that we are having death threat. Perhaps, someone can just say he has death threat and get certifications from the concerned authority and it is up to that office issuing the certicates to prove the authenticity and veracity of such claims of an applicants. There are many ways to circumvent but it is better to abide the law. Because I believe that if the government will really impose no permit to carry or CCW, they can do that for the time being, but sooner or later responsible and well-to-do gun owners will and will always find a way to revoked that restrictions. I have seen this on and off issue during our pre-martial law years (Pres. Marcos Time), after martial law, and this current government we have.

Equalizer, yes of course I can easily conceal my carry weapon. And there are many skill and art to concealment being developed over the gnerations.

Being in a hot equatorial country, heavy clothes to help cover our carry weapons is not advisable. And this is my experiences with my 9mm and .45.

The 4 1/4 barrel DP51 is good for carry (light and short) but the disadvantage of short guns for carry with IWB holster (without hammer strap), it is prone to accidental drop if you will bend forward or backward of unexpected situations. Whereas, a 5" barrel 1911 models with IWB holster is more implanted on the side waist and could not be dropped of whatever movement we do. And I can say it is good carry weapon. The flat 1911 like my 1991 A1 is very hard to notice the butt if slightly pointing near to your armpit. But the disadvantages is, if you sit down, there is the tendency that the muzzle will protrude backward and if you are not aware it will be marking. On normal carrying like walking or standing, it can never be noticed even on regular t-shirt if quite loose size. Like other said, whatever size if you are doing correctly and not intend to show-off that you are carrying, it could be hardly notice by anyone except on accidental displacement of the gun due to body movements. If like US that usually wear heavy clothes then I am very sure carry weapons can never be noticed.

I have three experiences that I get inside a bank without being noticed at the counter where security guards are. But in "Bank of America" in Makati, Phils. they did not notice my 1911 when I entered at the bank but when I am inside one plain clothes man come and point it with his stick and asked me to deposit at the counter. In that situation it is an x-ray machine that notice my gun not the eyes of the guards, for I passes by their area.

I am glad to hear those LE's correcting fellow LE's carrying weapons indiscriminately either with CCW or non.

One time when I get my 1911 Permit to CArry, there was one Cop also getting one, and I said to myself this is a good cop for he really abide the law, because normally cops don't care to get CCW or permit to carry in my country and maybe even in your country for they are cops, who cares to check them anyway.

Well, it is a good thread and cool exchanges of comments between cops and civilians.

Thank you,

Sonny Dalire Y Torres
ASAP GunClub, Inc.
Manila, Philippines
 
If it shows it's NOT concealed.

Wanker subject.

Just hide your gun, whatever it is, whether you're L.E. or civie.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
I think a great many people who believe they have never been made, would be surprised by how many times the actually have been. They have have never been turned in. Many people have the attitude they they do not want to get involved and take the reasonable approach that as long as you are not bother them or other people, it isn't worth the hassle. People just do not see themselves the same way other people see them. Kind of like the fat woman who looses 10 pounds and squeezes into that size 8 dress. For her it is real progress, but what does every one else see? I think the jist of this thread is that everyone take a good hard look at themselves through others, and insure that we are doing everything we can to be good neighbors to one another. Remember the emperor and his clothes.

[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited February 26, 2000).]
 
Some of the post in this thread are the most blatant examples of "pistol envy" I have ever witnessed. :D

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
Here in NM we don't have CCW so I don't have to worry about such foolishness. Open carry, which is legal here, (for what it is worth) will definitely raise some sheeple's eyebrows. I carry BIG pistols and revolvers. The smallest is my P90DC.

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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
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