Concealed Carry

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Caeca Invidia Es

Staff Alumnus
I was wondering what everyone here thought about Concealed Carry Permits. Are they worth getting?

------------------
I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.
 
I have had one since I was of legal age to get one. Is it worth while, It sure is. I don't carry all the time but when I feel the need it's my option.

------------------
gun control is people control



[This message has been edited by loknload (edited December 02, 1999).]
 
The advantages of CCW permits include:

State-sanctioned permission to carry a gun in public and have it ready for defense if you need it (in FL it is a 3rd-degree felony to carry concealed without a permit). Something we should have already, but that's another argument.

Not having to wait 3-7 days for a gun you purchased (something you don't have to do anyway if you already own a gun).

It's also a statement. It says you have no criminal record, are of sound mind, have firearms training, and are basically considered an upright and responsible citizen.

jth

------------------
Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
 
CCW is merely insurance. You may never need it, but if you do, and don't have it - you're dead.

For me, it's a personal statement that says,
"I alone am responsible for the safety of my family and myself."

CMOS

------------------
GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
 
I certainly agree with all the prior postings to this thread and with the advantages cited for obtaining a carry permit. I suggest that there is one additional -- and significant -- benefit.

In many states handguns can be carried under limited circumstances without a permit. For example, in Virginia a handgun can theoretically be carried unconcealed; it can also be transported to/from the range, etc. In Texas, there is an old "traveling" exemption that some have interpreted as being "three counties from home". These are only a couple examples of the many individual state laws governing handguns.

However, many of these local rules leave some key unanswered questions for LEO discretion/determination. By having a carry permit, these subjective judgements are generally eliminated. That, alone, may be sufficient reason for the handgun target shooter to acquire a permit.
 
What all those other folks said, especially Ulfilas and CMOS.

I like your tag line, but I like the one that says "I would rather live on my feet than die on my knees" better.
 
I believe that concealed carry is the only logical way to assure the security of yourself and that of your family. If you rely on the police to protect you, chances are that you will die waiting for them to arrive. There just aren't enough of those fine folks to go around.

Just yesterday a 33 year old woman was shot and killed in her garage on a rural farm road not five minutes from my house. She was on her way to work. The killer is still on the loose. The poor woman had no chance and leaves two elementary school-aged children and a husband behind. The only way that she could have defended herself is if she had a gun too. Maybe she wouldn't have survived, but at least the odds would have been even.

Tragically, Ohio does not allow concealed carry. This mother of two may still be alive today if she was allowed to arm herself.

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security." - Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
http://www.ofcc.net

------------------
RKBA!

"A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you." - Ramsey Clark

"Rights are liable to be perverted to wrongs when we are incapable of rightly exercising them." - Sarah Josepha Hale
 
Ditto, and one other thing.

It has been clearly demonstrated that when there are a lot of armed citizens, the crime rate drops dramatically. Getting a CCW, if nothing else, sends a message to would-be BG's that increasing numbers of their prospective victims have the ability to shoot back. Eventually, the BG's will get the message and seek employment in a field with fewer inherent risks.

If you do get a CCW, you must

1) Really carry
2) Train and practice with your gun
3) Be willing to use it if necessary

If you doubt whether you could really shoot someone in a life threatening situation, or if you have a chip on your shoulder and you are looking for trouble, or just want to feel macho, then don't get the CCW.
 
Good point, sbryce. Kind of reminds me of a quote I saw on ctdonath's website: "A pacifist with a machine gun isn't armed; he's just holding it."

Make your CCW worth something--practice.

On the other hand, CCWs do NOT place you above the law. One of the things that came along with my permit in the mail was a brochure from the FL Dept. of Licensing. The first line of it was "A permit to carry is not a permit to use your weapon."

Like sbryce said, if you're given over to a hot temper, spare yourself and others the potential grief.

jth

------------------
Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.



[This message has been edited by Ulfilas (edited December 02, 1999).]
 
loknload, if you think you are going into a situation that you need a gun, DON'T GO! My suggestion is that if you have a CHL carry your gun all the time. At least that way if you ever do have to shoot you won't have to justify why you decided to carry into that particular situation. Taking a gun to where you know there is going to be a problem can be premeditated murder in some scenarios.
 
CIE and loknload, listen to Jeff.
I like the CHL/CCW. I fought hard for it in Texas. BUT:
There are people who will get a CHL/CCW, and decide that they now have a right to walk into the Bucket O' Blood Saloon in Terlingua, Texas and not take any guff from anyone.
Once you get your CHL/CCW you MUST avoid situations where you WILL be required to use that weapon. Taking another life can be a devasting thing, emotionally and mentally. You WILL be mauled by the legal system, both criminal and civil. And you provide more grist for the gun control mill.

If you are mature and responsible, get a CHL/CCW. Carry a pistol. Carry it proudly.
But, (I hate sounding like a comic book) never, EVER forget the awesome responsibility represented by that firearm on your hip.

LawDog

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited December 02, 1999).]
 
Someone stated on this board once that the aquisition of a CCW/CCL is an aknowledgment to the government that we do not have the right to carry concealed, but that this right is indeed a priviledge granted to us by our own government. And that it is also one that can be removed from us without recourse.

Practice civil disobedience, if you can afford it. If you can't and you value your freedom enough, then get to the point where you can afford it.

------------------
John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited December 02, 1999).]
 
Thank you John! I was reading this thread SPECIFICALY to see if anyone would point this out. You are absolutely right and thank you for coming through.

Caeca: Asking the State for permission to bear arms IS "living on your knees". Your signature line is great.. are you willing to live up to it?
 
I don't disagree with anything anyone has said so far. Up until about 3 yrs. ago I had carried "without legal sanction" for about 30 yrs. When I had the option to carry "with legal sanction" I debated with myself if I was knuckling under if I did so. I decided the purpose of carrying was to protect myself and family and that by going legal I was doing just that, physicaly, legally as well as financialy. I'm still not 100% happy with compromising my convictions but I do feel much more as ease on a daily basis.

Someday I may regret having my picture, fingerprints, etc. on file with the FBI as a right-wing, militia prone, gun nut but if that time ever comes I guess I'll have to make up my own rules as the game is played out.

RKBA!
 
John/az2, This is actually why I posted this question to begin with. It seems to me to be more about getting gun owners to register one way or another then anything else. Does anyone know the possible fines for carrying without a permit in Utah?

------------------
I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.
 
76-10-504(1)(b) says this is a class A misdemeanor. I don't know what the penalty is. Any store that sells guns should also sell a book called Utah Gun Law, the Good, the Bad, the Ugly. This should tell you all you need to know. Don't look for it at the library. I got some pretty wierd looks when I asked a librarian to find a copy for me.
 
While I am unsure of the exact penalties for Concealed Carry with out the permit - I know they are stiff. The trick is, Dont Get Caught!
Carry every where you can. If you venture to places where there is a lot of officers - dont carry there. Police could "make you" or you could "print" or some one makes you. If you dont want to go unheeled - dont go there.

I dont go into post offices - where its a federal no-no... Instead I go to Smith's where they take mail and sell stamps and stuff, and there is no "Gun Policy."

Churches are different. They ask you not to carry in church - but some times I do. If I know I am going places before or after... I carry - or I leave it in the car.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey - have you seen the new Ultimate Super Tactical Match Gun?
 
Some observations and thoughts...

First, Md has some stiff gun laws, and our Atty General has called for the eventual confiscation of all handguns.

However, all the places that have "Liberalized"(pardon the term) carry laws show a marked decrease in violent crime. Usually only 10% of those eligible do carry after going through the procedures, but that's enough to convince the BGs it's a bad idea to be BGs.

Also, I polled 7 police officers a while back that I knew socially,from Cub Scouts, PTA, or just neighbors. They varied from a State Trooper to a B-more Detective,and all weren't rookies. A street smart bunch,IMO. None thought a gun in the hands of a law abiding citizen made their job harder or more perilous. All took the opinion that a trained, responsible individual carrying was in most ways, a free cop.

OTOH, it's my philosophy that anyplace that's dangerous enough for it to be a good idea for ME(Combat vet,retired Correctional Officer and Firearms instructor) is a very bad place for my family, most of whom do not carry, for various reasons. Avoidance is hardly ever a bad idea.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top