Concealed Carry / Illionis

Moore v Madigan

I don't claim to totally understand this, so I am posting what I think are the relative sections of the Moore case:

10. Plaintiff Michael Moore is a citizen and resident of Illinois residing in Champaign, Champaign County, Illinois. Mr. Moore is 60 years old, married, and he has 4 adult children and 4 grandchildren. Mr. Moore worked as a Corrections Officer in Cook County for 30 years and now works as the Superintendent of the Champaign County Jail.

11. When he was a Corrections Officer, Plaintiff Mr. Moore was also a sworn Deputy Sheriff, and State law allowed him to carry firearms while off-duty. At that time, Mr. Moore did carry a handgun for self-defense from time to time. Now that he is a civilian Jail Superintendent, State law does not include any provision that would allow him to carry a handgun.

3:11-cv-03134-SEM -CHE # 1 Page 3 of 9

12. Plaintiff Mr. Moore holds a valid Firearm Owners Identification Card (“FOID”) issued pursuant to the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. As such, he is generally entitled to possess firearms in the State of Illinois. See 430 ILCS 65/2.

13. Plaintiff Mr. Moore would carry a loaded and functional handgun in public for self-defense, but he refrains from doing so because he fears arrest, prosecution, fine, and imprisonment as he understands it is unlawful to carry a handgun in Illinois.
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I understand now. I thought Moore was still a corrections officer as Jail Superintendent. But the complaint makes it clear that he is not.

The complaint:

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=6521


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LEO, Active Military, Corrections, the Sheriff himself, doesn't matter, if you are consuming alcohol it is illegal to carry. Period.
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Not necessarly. LEOSA states you can't be under the influence but says nothing about drinking or being in a bar.

Remember the Seattle Cop Vs Hells Angles, Sturgis Bike Week.

The off duty Seattle cop was with a group of other cops from Washington attending the Sturgi SD Bike Week.

In the past that same Seattle cop worked undercover working to put MC Gangs in jail. While attending bike week, he was reconized by some HAs, a fight insued and the Seattle Cop shot (in self defense) a HA biker. This was in a bar, and both had been drinking altough the cop was not intoxicated or under the influence.

There was no dispute about the incident being self defence but the prosicuter tried to charge the cop with being in a bar, and drinking will carrying, in violation of SD law.

The court threw out the case saying the officer was protected by the LEOSA. There was no proof (or attempted to prove) he was 'under the influence" although there was no dispute that he was drinking.
 
There are plenty of instances where Chicago cops have been off-duty in an establishment that serves alcohol, where a person commited acrime and the off-duty police officers intervened and in some cases used their weapons.

I don't think that guns and alcohol are a good mix but I've never seen an officer procecuted under those circumstances for consuming alcohol and carrying and or deploying their firearm.

The only case that I am aware of something similar happening is when some bad Chicago cops got drunk in a bar, initiated a conflict with some other patrons and even went so far as to draw their pistols and pistol whip some people.

I don't know whatever happened in that case - I heard it was being referred to Internal Affairs.

But this is totally different from what's being talked about here, and like I said - off duty cops in bars that have drawn their weapons to intervene in a crime were never charged with anything concerning drinking abd carrying or deploying their weapons.
 
Alcahol isn't the point.

Since we're past the "corrections part," I am NOT advocating drinking while carrying a weapon!

If I was carrying a weapon, (because the sheriff for some reason had a change of heart), I either would not drink or bring another correctional officer as a designated driver and designated armed personnel. We'd rotate as needed ever time we went out, but this would be a small price to pay for protection.

As far as cook county goes, it might as well be a different state. Their courts might as well be California's 9th circuit. As many of you already stated a retired officer is allowed to carry under LEOSA. So as far as I'm concerned, he should have been ok. Now as far as jail superintendent, or "Chief," that dose not mean he is the head of the department.

With county corrections, the jail superintendent is not the official head of the department, the Sheriff is. The ONLY reason my chief can carry is that he is a Lieutenant with our deputies. If we ever got a new sheriff, and he wanted a new jail superintendent, my Chief would not be fired, rather, he would return to patrol in his lieutenant position.

As far as Mr. Moore goes, I'm pretty confidant he could travel armed anywhere south of Cook, and possible Will, counties and not be harassed as long as he had his credentials on him. OK, I know for a fact that officers in Hopkins park in Kankakee county consider you a lethal threat if they see so much as a FOID card, but thats most likely it.
 
Why should I? Because these guys see me on the streets, in street cloths and recognize me. Because as a correctional officer, just like a police officer I have a bit target painted on my back. Because the criminal element in our society has a special hate for all things that have to do with law enforcement, including corrections.

These guys know who I am, the general area I commute (our officers have to live within the county), and if other officers can't keep their mouths shut, these guys know I have a family. its not hard to get online, look up my name, and get my license plate number or divers license info and find out where I live. it took me a total of an hour to find it myself. Thats why corrections have more of a need to carry.
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So? Lots of people have problems. They are denied their rights too. You are starting to sound a little whinny now. If you really cared you would do like that guy in DC and sue the state for the right to carry for everyone instead of trying to figure out a way to take care of yourself.
 
MTT TL

"So? Lots of people have problems. They are denied their rights too. You are starting to sound a little whinny now. If you really cared you would do like that guy in DC and sue the state for the right to carry for everyone instead of trying to figure out a way to take care of yourself."

Your right, lots of people have similar issues, such as women with restraining orders agent ex-boyfriends, people who live in bade neighborhoods, and plenty of other examples.

The issue is not that I want something and think others shouldn't have the same right. The issue is the Correctional officers in my state HAVE that right so as their department head says two simple words: GO AHEAD. No courts, no litigation, no changes to law necessary.

Someone in an earlier post said:

"Brant, sounds like everything went well for you"

I took offense to this before I realized I was probably reading something that wasn't there. When people say "well it looks like everything went well" especially administrative officials, they're really saying, "No one got hurt and no one died, so we don't have to change policy." That is my point here. untill somone dies, my det. will never hanve its policy. If the administrative officials are not willing to allow their officers to carry, then a concealed carry law is the only way.

The one Illinois almost passed tis past year had a specific clause in it that allowed corrections to carry regardless of department policy. I'm not saying that is what i want, like I said before, a concealed carry law and all the fees, training and so forth is plenty enough to solve my complaint here.
 
The issue is not that I want something and think others shouldn't have the same right. The issue is the Correctional officers in my state HAVE that right so as their department head says two simple words: GO AHEAD. No courts, no litigation, no changes to law necessary.
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That is not a right. You are at the arbitrary whim of your boss.

Suppose your boss had said; "lets go search Brant's house because I think he is up to no good".... You see the difference?
 
I hear ya Brant. I lived in "The Peoples Republic of Illinois" for thirty eight years, Cahokia, IL., next to East St. Louis to be exact. Lived in a crappy house, small lot and high crime area and had a property tax bill of $4,000.00 per year. As soon as I retired, I got the hell out of Dodge. My advice is not to walk out of that state, but RUN.

BTW: I admire your profession, I certainly couldn't cope with the stress and danger of your job. It's one of those professions that's under appreciated.

I'll bet you have some on-the-job sobering stories you could tell.
 
Brant,

That was I that said, "Brant, sounds like everything went well for you." I did not mean any offense and was glad everything ended with no one hurt and it sounds like the bad guy was picked up too.

Please take no offense at this, while I am in NC, and we have a concealed carry law, I am also a police officer too. Even though legally speaking the concealed carry law is available, it would put me in violation of dept policy, subject to disciplinary action. I knew this when I took the position, and I try my best to go by the rules. Our off duty carry though still limited, is slowly expanding. All I and others can do there is to keep slowly applying some gentle pressure and regularly asking for things to be changed for the better.

My suggestions to you, while not easy, would be to work with others to try to muster support for a concealed carry law in IL, and also try to work from within your agency to ensure that if that law does get passed, they do not restrict you because you work there. Also you may work toward getting your agency to allow more certified folks to carry off duty even with some restrictions it sounds like it would be more then you have now. I know and understand its an up hill battle.
 
ISRA and Illinois Carry are working to get OC and CC in Illinois:

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

Things are kind of at a standstill right now waiting for two judges to rule in the Moore and Shepard cases.

Carry is coming to Illinois though... candidates who are running against the politicians who voted against 148 are getting the support of the ISRA and NRA. Some of the politicians who voted against 148 this last time have reconsidered their position since then.

Attitudes about gun ownership and carrying have changed somewhat in the African American community.

There are a lot of factors that cause me to be confident that we will eventually get it.

Right now though its a bit of a waiting game, waiting on the judges...
 
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