Complicated out of state purchase ?

F

funny book flapjack

Inactive
Got a question for any who might know. Here's the deal--

My wife & I live in Georgia. My Mother-in-law is a Florida resident. She recently retired, sold her home there, is buying a travel trailer, & is gonna tour the U.S. a couple years & enjoy herself.

She has been living with us for about 2 months, is now about to go to Maine to stay with another daughter for a couple months, will then drive to another state for a couple months after that, then another, etc.

Now-- I told her to buy her revolver & get her CCW before leaving Florida, because it would get tricky for her to buy a handgun once she left, but she didn't do it. Now she's here, wants one for the road, & I'm scrambling trying to figure out the best way to make it happen.

I can't just gift her one, even going through my FFL here, since she's not a Georgia resident, correct? She has a bank account here, but no type of utilities or anything like that. Wouldn't she have to pick it up from a Florida FFL?

And we can't buy one online from Florida & just have it shipped to my FFL here either, right? Or can my local FFL transfer it to her if she purchases it from Florida & ships it here to Georgia? I don't think that's legal either.

Her DL is a Florida license, she is a registered voter there, she still keeps a P.O. Box there, & plans to keep Florida as her legal state of residence, even though she won't have an actual house or apartment there (or in any other state).

Is the only answer for her to turn around, & drive back to Florida just to buy a revolver? Or is there an easier way (that's legal of course) than going back down there now that she's here?

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
She would be considered a Florida resident, but could also establish residency in another state by living there with the intention of establishing a home there. If her home is a RV, renting a lot somewhere would seem to satisfy the requirement.

atf.gov said:
B11) What constitutes residency in a State? [Back]

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State? [Back]

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]
Click to expand...

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b11
 
Yeah, that's what I figured.

She won't be renting an RV lot, as we have a few acres here, & will just park the travel trailer here when she stays with us. So her residence is gonna stay in Florida. She has more family there, lived there 30 years, & wants to keep it as home base.

Only reason she didn't do the CCW before leaving, is that Florida requires a class, & they were booked up before she left. So she then decided to just buy one without a CCW, & only carry in the vehicle (as allowed from state to state).

I'm just trying to get her something legally before she takes off. I guess we'll take a quick run to north Florida in the next couple days, pick up a S & W, & she can make an appointment for the CCW class when she rolls back through there in the spring.

Thanks for the answers fellas.
 
Wouldn't it be legal for you to give her a firearm if both of you were in Florida? I never knew it was illegal to give someone a gun??? Good thing I've never uh...done anything like that.
 
Wouldn't it be legal for you to give her a firearm if both of you were in Florida? I never knew it was illegal to give someone a gun??? Good thing I've never uh...done anything like that.
Click to expand...

No. Private transactions of firearms, whether they be gifts or sales, must occur between RESIDENTS of the same state. NOT just physically located in the same state.

Any transactions of firearms between residents of different states, whether it be gift, sale, family members, long guns or handguns, must be transacted via an FFL. The FFL requirements for long guns are slightly different than handguns, but an FFL is still required.

The ONLY excpetion to this rule is a firearm that is passed on as part of a deceased persons estate.
 
funny book flap jack,

Since she is only going to be keeping the gun in the RV, she might be able to purchase a shotgun from an FFL in Georgia, if both GA and FL laws allow it.
 
Yeah, I know it's gotta go through an FFL. I was holding out hope that it was possible for her to buy through an FFL here, if she ordered the gun from a Florida shop. Pretty sure that's a no go, but figured I would throw that idea up here to see for sure.

She could buy a shot gun here legally, but doesn't want a long gun. She's not new to guns, & knows what she wants, she just doesn't have a snub at the moment, & screwed up not buying one before leaving.

Sounds like a road trip to a north Florida gun shop is about ta happen. Is there a waiting period for her there since she doesn't have a CCW?
 
Traveling snubbie

Her best bet is to return to FLA. Get her CCW and buy her snubbie after the permit comes. This will give a legal right to carry in 32 states LEGALY. My other advise would be for BOTH of you to look at this web site.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
If she is planing a trip to Maine driving there is going to be IMPOSSIBLE to do LEGALY. She has to get through MD. N.J. N.Y. CT. MA. and Maine does not honor Florida's CCW permit.
For her peace of mind she may want to re-think the snubbie for traveling. Three working day wait without CCW permit
 
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I don't see anything complicated about the scenario that you present.

If you observe the letter of the law, you cannot give her a gun.

If the letter of the law is observed, she might be able to return to FLA and buy a gun.

If the letter of all state laws are observed, she probably will not get much comfort from an unloaded gun under lock and key somewhere in her RV, assuming it is legal for her to possess her gun at the final destination of the journey.

If she gets 'discovered' in NJ or NY, she will be arrested and given the opportunity to prove to a judge that she can legally transit that state with a firearm under the Federal firearms owner protection act. In NJ, if she can convince a judge to turn her loose, she will not get her gun back.

If I were on a "pleasure" trip, I would head west on I-10 and terminate my trip before I got to Kali.
 
(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State? [Back]

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]
Click to expand...

did you see this part?
 
Sometimes, rather than making fear-based decisions, I'm convinced it's best to just use common sense. Anybody got any idea what the simple, common-sense solution to this problem is? I do!
 
Get her a small 410 shotgun and won't have to worry about any other states:) I also can't see how she would be able to have a handgun in some if not most states even if she has a CCW from FL??????
 
It is legal in many states to buy a firearm if you are a resident from a different state. I live in Az, but I bought a Beretta in Tx. while on vacation. I also know that I can buy in Utah, S.D. and about 15 other states. The generic answers others have posted may or may not be correct. Call an FFL in Ga. and ask if that FFL can sell her a firearm.

I have seen a colored map in Walmart that shows various colored states and if you live in any of the green states, then you can buy in any one of the other green states. They have several colors with explanations of the colors and procedures required.
 
FIRst off, I am assuming that you are completely above board, legal and all other ways doing the right thing...

DO you know of any guns that did not come from gun shops? Anything where there is no paper trail?


Something were she could just say, it was my late husbands gun, I have no idea where it came from ?


WHIle this may not fit the letter of the law, it makes it damn hard for someone to disprove.

Older widows traveling alone in an RV minding their own business are not the target of massive ATF investigations. The only time this is going to become an issue is in the highly unlikely case she actually has to use it. I would tell her to try to get her permit, and to get a New Hampshire Permit as well, and maybe a utah permit,

I know there are going to be Keyboard lawyers jumping on me for this, but I am not suggesting an illegal activity, I am just wondering if perhaps her late husband did not by chance give you a gun that you might want to return to her.
 
I may get flamed here.... but it sounds to me like

she is a resident of Georgia right now. That is where she is living right now and has been for a while. ATF does not concern themselves with in state sales. I don't believe Georgia requires you use an FFL when the transfer is between state residents. ATF does not say you have to have paper work to be a resident of a state... in fact you can be a resident of more than one state at the same time. Sell her one of your guns.

Read the ATF web sight and see if I'm not right.
 
blume is right. What would be the mechanism for BATFE or anybody else to know about the transaction, since no paperwork is required for private sales?
 
Duh... slaps forhead. Of course blume357 is correct. Don't know why I didn't think of that. Her RV is her home. She entered Georgia with the intent of making that a temporary residence. She doesn't have the means to prove residency to an FFL, but a face to face sale would be perfectly legal.

So, there are two ways to do this without viloating any laws.

1. Son goes to the FFL in GA, buys the handgun with the intention of giving it to his mother as a gift, she resides in the same state... then son gives mother the gift of the handgun.

2. Son sells mom a handgun out of his personal collection.

Actually, third option..

3. Mom gives money to son as a gift, NOT RELATED to any firearms at all. Then son executes option #1.

The only illegal action would be for Mom to give Son the money with the express intent to buy her the gun with. Then the money INTENDED for the gun and the gun go to the same person, but that person is not on the 4473. Same thing if son bought the gun with the INTENTION of selling it to mom, without it first residing in his personal collection for a period of time, 1 year recommended by the ATF.

For what it's worth, this is exactly how my wife has obtained 7 handguns in 2 states from 6 FFL's. She is a military spouse, not required in the states where I was stationed to change her driver's license. She went with me to the FFL's, she picked out the guns she wanted, I explained to the FFL I was getting her a gift, I filled out the 4473, wrote the check, gave her the gun. All above board, legal, with the full knowledge of the FFLs involved.
 
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