Comparing Bullseye vs Win231
- Thread starter LBussy
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
The powder being tested could have come from different lots, which could give different performance.
Or it could have been due to one of myriad other factors.
Or it could have been due to one of myriad other factors.
Burn Rate Charts
Burn rate charts, at best, can only give you an "extremely" rough idea, relative to comparative powders.
Each powder burns differently, depending on moisture and pressure. The number of powders that fall between each other have NO reference to a quantitative rate of burn delta. So, counting the number of powder is more an indicator of the age of the chart than burn rate.
I have "burn rate" charts from the early 80s as well as current charts. The number of powders between any 2 powders [from the early charts] has increased significantly. I doesn't mean the difference between the two powder got larger; simply that there are more powders demonstrating similar burning characteristics.
Considering all the component shortages I have experienced in the last 30 years, I've learned not to depend on any 1 powder for any cartridge. At some point...you won't be able to get one of them.
Burn rate charts, at best, can only give you an "extremely" rough idea, relative to comparative powders.
Each powder burns differently, depending on moisture and pressure. The number of powders that fall between each other have NO reference to a quantitative rate of burn delta. So, counting the number of powder is more an indicator of the age of the chart than burn rate.
I have "burn rate" charts from the early 80s as well as current charts. The number of powders between any 2 powders [from the early charts] has increased significantly. I doesn't mean the difference between the two powder got larger; simply that there are more powders demonstrating similar burning characteristics.
Considering all the component shortages I have experienced in the last 30 years, I've learned not to depend on any 1 powder for any cartridge. At some point...you won't be able to get one of them.
Maybe I just started too low but I just came back from shooting some 357 mag 147gr LDEWC over 3.3gr of 231. Shot and cycled but these felt less powerful than the .38spl I also fired. .38 +P was expectedly hotter (store bought rounds) than both but I felt I was in a burning house from all the SMOKE before the fans (indoor range) cleared the air 
.
I couldn't see for a few seconds due to smoke. More smoke than some weak 45 Colt loads I shot a few weeks ago. Just say "NO!" to 3.3gr of 231 in 357 loads!!!
.I couldn't see for a few seconds due to smoke. More smoke than some weak 45 Colt loads I shot a few weeks ago. Just say "NO!" to 3.3gr of 231 in 357 loads!!!
I could be all wet here but when I fire my wadcutters I use .38 Spl brass. The same loads in .357 brass seemed to be more anemic and smoke more.Maybe I just started too low but I just came back from shooting some 357 mag 147gr LDEWC over 3.3gr of 231. Shot and cycled but these felt less powerful than the .38spl I also fired. .38 +P was expectedly hotter (store bought rounds) than both but I felt I was in a burning house from all the SMOKE before the fans (indoor range) cleared the air
I couldn't see for a few seconds due to smoke. More smoke than some weak 45 Colt loads I shot a few weeks ago. Just say "NO!" to 3.3gr of 231 in 357 loads!!!
The 3.3gr W231 load WAS in the 357. I had made some .38 and also brought some .38+P factory loads (more for case harvesting...) and they were the hottest as one would expect. My .38spl hand loads were better using AA#2. But the 357 158gr LWC were in 357.
I'm gonna make some more and use Bullseye or something faster to see if I can get it faster and less smoky. I think I'm gonna use some 125gr plated rounds this time....
Quote:
A 3.3gr load of W231 behind a DEWC is a VERY low charge weight when in a .38 Special case. Put it in a .357 Mag case and it is MUCH too low. That's why you are getting all the smoke. You need to add at least another half a grain of powder.
Yes, I understand that the 3.3gr W231 load was fired in .357 Mag brass. I was simply saying that the charge weight is too low for .38 Special brass, so it is REALLY too low for .357 Mag brass. Where are you getting your load data from?
Don
A 3.3gr load of W231 behind a DEWC is a VERY low charge weight when in a .38 Special case. Put it in a .357 Mag case and it is MUCH too low. That's why you are getting all the smoke. You need to add at least another half a grain of powder.
Yes, I understand that the 3.3gr W231 load was fired in .357 Mag brass. I was simply saying that the charge weight is too low for .38 Special brass, so it is REALLY too low for .357 Mag brass. Where are you getting your load data from?
Don
I have used Bullseye in the past using a 4" S&W Model 19 with 357 cases loaded with Speer 148gr LWC and Speer 158gr LSWC over light charges of Bullseye that were taken from the Speer #10 loading manual. Both these loads were very accurate but not necessarily clean. I no longer have that gun as that was back in the 1980's before this wonderful internet.
Today I shoot 9mm and 380 auto pistols. The powder I use varies as I'm still experimenting but so far Hodgdon HP-38/W231 is at the top of the list. Followed by Ramshot Silhouette. Both meter very reliably and are burning very clean. For some unknown reason Alliant powder seems to be hard to find locally. Nobody seems to stock it.
As to Burn Rate Charts, I have 3 of them and not one is anywhere near close to the other as far as Orders go. I quite looking at them.
Today I shoot 9mm and 380 auto pistols. The powder I use varies as I'm still experimenting but so far Hodgdon HP-38/W231 is at the top of the list. Followed by Ramshot Silhouette. Both meter very reliably and are burning very clean. For some unknown reason Alliant powder seems to be hard to find locally. Nobody seems to stock it.
As to Burn Rate Charts, I have 3 of them and not one is anywhere near close to the other as far as Orders go. I quite looking at them.
Jim Watson
New member
So I guess that makes me wrong for shooting several barge loads of .38 wadcutters with 3.2 gr W231. Like the Speer book told me to do. But they were hollowbase.
USSR
I got that data from one of the "loadbooks" I have. This was for .357 Magnum only. The .38spl was from some load manual for +P loads that came along with an order of powder. I agree they were too low. I have data for Bullseye or Titegroup and 125gr. plated RN bullets. Gonna try those this weekend.
I got that data from one of the "loadbooks" I have. This was for .357 Magnum only. The .38spl was from some load manual for +P loads that came along with an order of powder. I agree they were too low. I have data for Bullseye or Titegroup and 125gr. plated RN bullets. Gonna try those this weekend.
Here's a good article written by Ed Harris regarding wadcutters: http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/38wadcutterQA.htm. He states with the current Alliant Bullseye powder you need 3.0 - 3.2 grains to reach the same velocity as the classic 2.7 - 2.8 grains of Hercules Bullseye. Don't know, but come the Spring I will be running loads across my chronograph and will find out.
Don
Don