Compact/sub-compact auto to replace J-Frame

C

Cossack

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I'm toying with the idea of replacing my S&W model 49 .38 with an auto for CCW. I'd like to find something of comparable size with good shootability, an all-metal frame, with a manual safety, and preferably a hammer and the ability to carry cocked-and-locked. The emphasis will be on shootability and ease of carrying

The first thing that comes to mind is the Colt Gov't .380. My wife has one, and I love how it shoots. I might get one, but I want to consider the other things that are out there. Another gun of comparable size that i love is the Colt 1903/1908. I find their size to be ideal (very thin) and of course they shoot like a dream.

Another thought I've had is the Beretta 84/85. They have the features I want, but I worry that they are not significantly smaller than my P225, Snub K-Frame, or Hi Power. i carry those sometimes, and I want to think about the little gun that I carry when they aren't convenient, which is usually the J-Frame, so I want something that is comparable. Does anyone have a Beretta who can comment on its ease of carry/concealment relative to a J-Frame?

What other guns should I consider?

Please do not make this an argument about the effectiveness of certain cartridges over others. There are more than enough threads about that and I have my own opinion.
 
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If you want a metal-framed compact with a safety lock, CZ has the 75 Compact. It's a bit bigger than the Beretta 84, but is chambered in 9 Luger. I have one and the slightly smaller (though not by much) 83, which is very similar to the Beretta. Both carry very nicely, although I usualky wear the 83.

If you can put up with a plastic frame, the CZ P-07 is very good, and similar in size to the 75 Compact. The P-07 comes with interchangeable decocker and safety, so you can choose between the two.

The CZ 2075 RAMI meets your criteria. It's considered a subcompact, but it's a big one. However, it is surely noticeably smaller than your SIG. I think any of these, and the Beretta, are noticeably smaller than your Hi-Power.

It's hard to go wrong with the Beretta.
 
Honestly it is going to be hard to find a gun that will meet all these criteria in the size you want. The all metal and safety are the tough ones IMHO. Aldo you seem to be blurring the lines between sub compact and compact.

Also what is the budget? Will you consider used?
 
Cossack -

"I'm toying with the idea of replacing my S&W model 49 .38 with an auto for CCW. I'd like to find something of comparable size with good shootability, an all-metal frame, with a manual safety, and preferably a hammer and the ability to carry cocked-and-locked. The emphasis will be on shootability and ease of carrying"

Seems to me that you've just described a SIG 938 in 9mm. I doubt you'll find a better gun to fill that role. Meets all your hot buttons and many versions have better night-sights to boot.!
 
Seems to me that you've just described a SIG 938 in 9mm. I doubt you'll find a better gun to fill that role. Meets all your hot buttons and many versions have better night-sights to boot.!
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IMHO the SIG 938 in 9mm is a subcompact gun. OP needs to clarify exactly what size he is looking at. Maybe some dimensions would help.
 
Agreed. I guess "compact" vs. "sub-compact" is in the eye of the beholder.

Dimensions might help, but Cossack already carries a "49, wants something of comparable size and he referenced a Colt Govt. 380. I think the SIG 938 fits right there. I know I use the same Nemesis pocket holster for all the above.
 
Dimensions might help, but Cossack already carries a "49, wants something of comparable size and he referenced a Colt Govt. 380. I think the SIG 938 fits right there. I know I use the same Nemesis pocket holster for all the above.
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I agree which is why the verbiage is confusing. I would put the S&W model 49 squarely in the sub-compact size comparing it to autoloaders.

He then jumps to the Beretta 84s/85 which are big for their capacity etc...
 
Springfield Armory EMP 9mm. 1911 style action, 9+1 rounds.
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A much as I love mine, this is NOT a pocket gun, which is what the Smith was. Short, light ~4 pound trigger SAO ..... C&L ...... in a pocket? Not in MY pocket.

Weighs 26oz empty, ~31 oz. loaded ..... very shootable, but not a pocket gun, if that's what the OP meant by replacement.

The 938 mentioned is a subcompact if you get the standard version .... the "Extreme" version (HATE SIG's idea of nomenclature!) has fatter grips and an extended magazine with room enough for all my fingers ...... the ones I've seen have a stiff 8ish pound trigger that might make it more pocket carry friendly for some .... YMMV.
 
I guess I need to clarify - I don't want something teeny, but I want something smaller than what I consider "Compact" - like the CZ75 Compact or Sig P225 (between my wife and I we have both of those, so I want something noticeably smaller for the days when those are too big).

By "subcompact," I guess I'm referring to things around the size of a Mustang Pocketlite, Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P3AT. Maybe those are "Micro." The Colts I mentioned in the OP both give a very solid grip and are easy to shoot well. Both are easy for me to carry and conceal and are more comfortable and easy to hide than something the size of the CZ75 Compact. I'm interested in the CZ82/83, but they don't look much smaller than the CZ75 compact. There aren't any to handle in my neck of the woods. Same with the Beretta 380s. There are some available from Gary Cole on Gunbroker for very good prices, which aroused my curiosity.

I'll check out the Sig 938 and 238 - They look like there's not too much to hold on to.

I'll most likely just end up getting one of the Colts I mentioned - but I want to see what I'm missing first.

I guess I'm saying larger than a Mustand, smaller than a CZ75 Compact. It's an in-between area without a lot of options that meet my criteria.
 
Look into the Sphinx subcompact. It holds 13+1 and is smaller than the CZ Compact or P225. It is one of the more accurate guns I own and shoots like a compact.

It is a DA/SA gun with a hammer and decocker. No safety and has a polymer grip but rides on an alloy frame and has a steel slide. It is not cheap but it is a stellar gun.

http://www.sphinxarms.com/index.php...compact-alpha-line/subcompact-alpha-9mm-da-sa

Caliber 9x19 mm
Overall Length 6.55 in / 168 mm
Overall Height 4.97 in / 126 mm
Overall Width 1.22 in / 31 mm
Weight 24.90 oz / 709 g
Barrel Length 3.13 in / 79.5 mm
Sight Radius 5.08 / 129 mm

sdp_subcompact_pl_559_428_90.jpg


Another one to consider if you don't mind used is the S&W 3913/3914. A great DA/SA single stack in the size range you are looking for. S&W discontinued the gen 3 guns and does not support them anymore but there are tons of them out there and they are reliable shooters that should give you a lifetime of shooting.
 
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If you like a hammer or DA/SA setup you could check out the HK P30sk or the P2000sk. Size wise think of a P239 if you're familiar with that, though the HKs give you 10+1 versus 8+1. The HKs can be found for very reasonable prices, ~$600 and less, compared to what they used to be.
 
If you like a hammer or DA/SA setup you could check out the HK P30sk or the P2000sk. Size wise think of a P239 if you're familiar with that, though the HKs give you 10+1 versus 8+1. The HKs can be found for very reasonable prices, ~$600 and less, compared to what they used to be.
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You are running into the same issue with this that I am. Poly frame is not what the OP is looking for. :(
 
You are running into the same issue with this that I am. Poly frame is not what the OP is looking for.
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Ah. One of those threads. Well hell then. :o

If DA/SA is still on the table, I based that on the owning of the P225, then the P239 is a bit smaller but I am not a big fan of the completely square frontstrap. Hogue grips fix that, but then it's a pretty wide setup. There is the older S&W 6906, 3913, or 908 that might work. The OP seems to think the P938 might be too small or that's another decent alternative. I actually shot one recently and I thought it was okay, I just personally have no problem carrying something a bit bigger like a Glock 26 and then I have a lot better capacity and the option of the higher capacity G19 or G17 mags.
 
I guess I'm saying larger than a Mustand, smaller than a CZ75 Compact. It's an in-between area without a lot of options that meet my criteria.
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What about the CZ 2075 Rami. 3" barrel, and can be had with safety.

 
A Sig P239 doesn't fit the realm of pocket carry/subcompact, but they are great guns. I do not think there are any other options than the Sig P238/938 or Colt Mustang given the listed criteria.

Metal frames are becoming more and more rare, especially in a subcompact package. Remington just brought out the RM380, but that is a DAO pistol. I don't think you'll find anything as convienent to carry as your J Frame. I like the idea of a P238/Mustang, but I do not pocket carry so it wouldn't be much smaller than what I already use IWB.
 
I have a Colt Government 380, but don't consider it suitable for pocket carry. It is too large, too heavy, and single action.

Frankly, something like a S&W Shield or a Ruger LC9 variant is more suitable. Their size and weight are more similar to an alloy j-frame, and like the j-frame, they are double action.

I am a revolver guy and still prefer a 38 snub. A modern, double action, polymer 9mm would be my substitute if I ever strayed from my revolverness. Roughly same size and weight, similarly safe in a pocket holster, squeeze the trigger and it goes bang with no racking or safety to bother with.

My apologies to the OP for straying from his guidelines. I am just trying to speak as one revolver guy to another.
 
Well, if:

"I'd like to find something of comparable size with good shootability, an all-metal frame, with a manual safety, and preferably a hammer and the ability to carry cocked-and-locked."

Then go with the Colt gov't 380 or similar sized Sig.


"What other guns should I consider?"

Check out the Sig P232 380 cal. Totally different from what you are initially considering, but alloy frame, DA/SA, decocker - no safety but carry ready to rock, small but not too small...
 
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