Communism

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I was talking to a democrat today for a while about the world today and politics, etc. The democrat seems to think that republicans are CLOSER to communism than democrats are? Can someone please prove the person wrong? I belive democrats are closer to communists, can someone re-affirm my beliefs?
thanks
 
Well let's see...

Top 45 things on the To-do list for pinko commies from Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Don't see much of those on the agenda of the GOP, while a good 90-95% is either already done by a demoncrat or is on the Dems platform.
 
I believe that the Democrats are closer to Communism than the Rebublicans. Karl Marx once said that
The theory of Communists may be summed up in the single sentance: Abolition of private property.
According to V. I. Lenin,
Communist society means that everything-the land, the factories-is owned in common.
Read that as "owned by the state"

In summary of these, Communism is the total control of the state over the people, via the abolition of private property. When comparing two groups, the one which favors more government control over the people is closer to communism. The way I see it, at the moment, the Democrats are the ones favoring more government control. That is, more than the Rebublicans are comfortable with.
 
Actually, the first response is based on a internet myth. NOT factual. Sorry. It was discussed and dismissed as fictional propaganda recently. Communism is dead. Socialism is alive and democrats support social programs for the collective good.
 
True ... those same rules have been "documented" as being entered into the congressional record on various dates.

If there were such a list, the first line should be, "Find a way to change the basic nature of mankind so that communism will work and survive long enough to overcome the capitalist cultures."

Failed the first step; the rest are moot (as well as fictional).
 
Sir William, your acknowledgement that it is indeed, not 1955, was much appreciated. As a political agenda, statist Marxism, is currently about as alive as Divine Right Monarchy.
Concerning the contention that the Democrats are 'commies' and 5th columnists, not really. As noted, they do have some socialist tendancies...but guess what so does the GOP, their general support of ag-subsidies being a prime example.
The issue here, is more a danger brought by authoritarian tendencies, and in that regard both the GOP and Democrats are doing a fine job with such gems as "Homeland Security" and all it's attendant manifestations.
When we lose our liberties in this country, it will not be from the relic political ghosts of the industrial age. It will be via current political systems, which will be made much more intrusive via heretofore unavailable technologies. In other words, Microsoft meet the NSA.
But when the upcoming enemy will be our own, it's always easier to haul out the old bogeymen. They're somewhat easier to locate...
 
One issue that does concern me is the Taxachusetts/Kennedy socialism. The DNC has jumped on board many short term solutions that only caused meltdowns later. The Penn Central RR merger is what I will remember as a POOR example of our government at work. The Patriot Act/TSA/Homeland Security is simply fascism. BOTH parties were jumping on board post-9/11 idiotic ideas. I question the intelligence of both parties. I still disapprove of the Omnibus Crime Control Act of 1968.
 
I was talking to a democrat today for a while about the world today and politics, etc. The democrat seems to think that republicans are CLOSER to communism than democrats are? Can someone please prove the person wrong? I belive democrats are closer to communists, can someone re-affirm my beliefs?
Your democrat friend is right in a very real sense. The Bush administration and seeming majority of the "republican" Congress are supporting, even heavily increasing elements of communism in this country. They have not stamped out any of them, even though they are now at the helm.

What it demostrates very graphically is the Hegelian Dialectic in action. Thesis vs antithesis, producing synthesis. Controlled conflict for controlled change.

And ... it works! Many "conservative republicans" still think their party and pres are for real, and that Bush and Co are "conservative in some ways". On the contrary, they are engaged in a socialist global agenda with other likeminded cronies.
 
Christians and Communists seem to hate each other, at least in this country. From what little I know, their schemes of division of labour, goods, and services seem to be similar, almost identical. I know I must be missing something because everybody disagrees with me on this, maybe your friend is missing something, too.
 
Christians and Communists seem to hate each other, at least in this country
I am not sure about christians hating communists, here is a quote by Frederick Engels:
"We want to sweep away anything that claims to be supernatural and superhuman, for the root of all untruth is the pretention of the human and the natural to be superhuman and supernatural. For that reason we have once and for all declared war on religion and religious ideas and care little whether we are called atheists or anything else."
That is from Marx and Engels, Collected Works, vol. 6, pg 103.
their schemes of division of labour, goods, and services seem to be similar, almost identical
Not so. Christians are in the main capitalists. True Communism is radicaly different from Capitalism. What you might be seeing in 'communist' countries today is the adoption of capitalism to save the economy of the country. This happened right after the 1917 revolution in Russia. Lenin quickly realized that Communism was rapidly destroying the Russian economy, and so he re-instituted various capitalistic practices to save it.
 
"Your democrat friend is right in a very real sense. The Bush administration and seeming majority of the "republican" Congress are supporting, even heavily increasing elements of communism in this country. They have not stamped out any of them, even though they are now at the helm."

Tangible examples, please?
 
Twycross - Thanks. I think about such things in the Bible about being your brother's keeper and the sharing of fish and bread amongst a gathering of people. Also, when I hear Christians talk about charity. A lot of them even go out and do something about it and help the poor. And the phrase about it being more difficult to pass through the eye of a needle than to go to heaven if one is rich. Also, the recently deceased Pope declaring it is a sin to underpay one's workers.
Like I said, I'm no expert on either one. I can understand Christians' recoiling from the many Communist totalitarian regimes there have been. The Communists do not seem to be able to live up to their own ideals or even come close at times.
 
There is a big difference between a Christian being chariatiable (sp?) and the gov't providing for all. The person does it out of the bottom of their heart of their own free will. The government forces others to take care of people.

Christians and Communists seem to hate each other

I always understood communism to be atheist. You want people to believe the state is the highest authority that they have to answer to, not God.
 
jefnvk:

You actually got the gist of it. Christians do what they do voluntarily out of love, not out of coersion. Communists do so at the point of a gun.

Christians claim to a higher authority, Communists claim that there is no higher authority and that the state is the ultimate authority.

Hence, there really isn't any comparison between them.
 
The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas , Socialist Party Presidential Candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948 and co-founder of the American Civil Liberties Union

Need I say more?
 
We are already a socialist nation in many regards. Such things are not binary, but a matter of degree.

The Republican party is just as much about Social Security and entitlements as anyone else. I think comparing the two parties in terms of their relationship to Communism is frankly bizarre - socialism is a program that can operate in a capitalist state. Communism is the opposite of capitalism.

While we try and pretend otherwise, the two parties are different sides to the same coin. Despite all protestations, neither party has much of anything in common with the government envisioned by the founding fathers. Either party is a perversion of the original idea for a federal government.


This kind of conversation just reminds me that McCarthy lives on. People are STILL using political hot button words like "Commie" to villify a political agenda they don't agree with - though it has NOTHING to do with the writing of Marx and Engels. It is a tool to avoid public debate on issues. The Catholic Church used to invoke the devil for the same aim.


Ladies and gentlemen, there has never been a true communist society (larger than a single farm) on this planet. Marx failed to foresee the rise of labor unions, which achieved the necessary reforms of the time while supporting capitalism. From that point on the notion was dead. It was not meant to work in agrarian countries, like China a Russia, and therefore didn't.


I really think the continued use of this outdated term is particularly juvenile. I would suggest you leave this boogieman in the closet and talk about issues directly. Anything else is frankly dishonest.
 
It would appear marxist communism is thriving by definition and has a large following in most areas of government. An excerpt from The Communist Manifesto

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.---> Direct tax known as property tax and controls on how land can be used.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. --->Tomorrow

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.---> Not abolished, but subject to heavy depletion.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.----> RICO laws and events in the south come to mind.

5. Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.--->More and more control is being exercised over banks.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. ----> FCC, TSA, and various other federal, state, and local agencies have ever growing control.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.--> Not improving, but controlling.

8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.---> Not yet, although we do have an army of those not working.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.---> Hmmmm..

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. ---> Indoctrination of useful idiots, etc.



I think communism has always worked as intended, but perhaps not as stated. After all you can attract more flies with honey.
 
Jason,

Those 10 items are designed to distribute wealth.

Is it your opinion that the upper class is shrinking, since you say those things are all happening?
 
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