Aguila Blanca
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The M1911 wasn't intended to be carried cocked and locked. It was intended to be carried with the hammer down most of the time, and cocked and locked only when enemy action was "imminent."polaris joe said:
Commander hammer
- Thread starter rmocarsky
- Start date
Tactical Jackalope
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I've seen it marketed as "combat" hammer and "skeletized" as well. This one.
Combat / Skeletized Hammer
Commnder Hammer
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I thought you might have that one in mind. It's nothing but a Commander hammer with an elongated hole. Since it has never been used in real combat on any official basis by any country's armed forces, I remain of the opinion that it can't be called a "combat" hammer.Constantine said:
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Ahh. Okay. Gotcha. Thanks for that. So it's just called a skeletalized hammer then, right?
It would be nice to see documentation or testimony from a member of the design team. The Browning HP originally had the "Commander" hammer. I was told the drill for cocking the Radom for combat was the Polish cavalryman was to "wipe it" down the side of his trousers. I note more recent Browning HPs have the older style M1911 hammer.
The 1911 and 1911A1 always and only had spur hammers. Whether they were made by Colt, USS, Remington Rand, etc. as a military sidearm the military in the U.S. wanted a spur hammer. The originals were wide and checkered. Similar, in ways, to the hammers on the Colt Single Action Army and their da revolvers. During WWII to save time in production, these were narrowed and left flat sided and became serrated rather than checkered.
The Army wanted a spur hammer on their pistols. They decided this early on in the 1890s as the U.S. began a search for a semi auto handgun for the first time. Colt and Browning offered them other options but they went with the spur hammer. They were used to spur hammers and they were easier to cock and de-cock for them, so they figured. This despite that they almost adopted the Luger and it's hammerless toggle link design.
In 1949 Colt first placed a rounded hammer on the gun when they introduced the Colt Commander. The military had not asked for a rounded hammer but Colt figured it reduced weight a tiny bit and they had substantial feedback and experience and figured it would be better on this gun.
The pics below show two Commanders from 1949 and 1950 with their original hammers.
The Commander was never adopted by the U.S. military.
All rounded hammers after this on 1911's acquired the name "Commander" hammer simply because Colt was the first to make a 1911 in this size and with a rounded hammer. Rounded hammers in general on pistols began to be called "Commander Style" at least in the U.S.
From the 1890s on pistols were made with both spur and rounded hammers. It was mostly a matter of what an army wanted or the makers opinion of what the gun's purpose was that decided the difference.
For example, when Colt offered the Browning designed Model 1900 military model to the U.S. Army it had a spur hammer like this M 1902 does...
A year later Colt offered the Browning M1903 Pocket Hammerless in 38acp to the commercial market and it had a round hammer. It was for pocket carry...
The hole in the Commander hammer was to reduce weight and not for strings to go through.
The original Mauser pistol had a rounded hammer. etc.
tipoc
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Just FYI, the target hammer on the Bisley model Single Action had a wider spur than the standard hammer.
But the hammer spur of the auto pistol was not that critical. It was pretty much assumed that if/when the pistol was to be used, the soldier would have enough warning to work the slide, loading the chamber and cocking the hammer. That remained the military philosophy throughout the service life span of the .45 pistol.
Part of the reason for the rowel hammer on the Commander was probably that the smaller and lighter pistol recoiled more and a spur hammer would be more likely to damage the shooter's hand. Also, it just plain looks better on the shorter pistol.
Jim
But the hammer spur of the auto pistol was not that critical. It was pretty much assumed that if/when the pistol was to be used, the soldier would have enough warning to work the slide, loading the chamber and cocking the hammer. That remained the military philosophy throughout the service life span of the .45 pistol.
Part of the reason for the rowel hammer on the Commander was probably that the smaller and lighter pistol recoiled more and a spur hammer would be more likely to damage the shooter's hand. Also, it just plain looks better on the shorter pistol.
Jim
You misunderstood or perhaps I was not clear enough. The original hammer on the 1911 was wide and checkered compared to later versions of the hammer that began during WWII. I meant that these spur hammers were closer in look and design to the spur hammers on wheelguns which the U.S. military was familiar with.
I assume you are also familiar with the variety of shapes that Colt, and others, placed on their wheelguns. That's all.
Remember the U.S. never adopted the Commander as a service sidearm so it never had an opinion on which hammer type was more "combat" over the other.
The M9, which replaced the 1911 in U.S. service did and does have a rounded hammer. But I don't think a spur hammer was ever offered on the Beretta 92.
Consider that Browning designed and installed several types of hammers on his gun over the years.
Look at the Walther P38 with it's spur hammer.
Look at the rounded hammer of the Radom Vis, of the early BHP, of the Walther PP and PPK, Tokarov etc.
So there is not a whit of evidence to suggest that one type of hammer was inherently better as a "combat" hammer than another. It's more a factor of design and fulfilling an order to an armies specs. (You can bet that the hammer on the Radom was better to pull out from under a heavy coat than a 1911.)
Nowdays calling a hammer a "Combat" hammer is mostly marketing.
tipoc