Comfortable with Cocked and Locked?

I get where you're coming from. I think it has to do (for me) with the design of the gun. As you say, those guns that are designed to be carried in this way, are safe so long as they're carried in proper holsters.

I have a CZ P07 that can be configured either as DA/SA with decocker, or C&L with safety. However, even when the hammer is cocked, there is still a "half-cocked" (more like 20% cocked) safety catch in case the hammer were to be knocked out of position when the trigger isn't pulled. In fact, that's the position to which it falls when manually decocked. Then, there's a firing pin block internal to the gun (like most other guns today) that can't be moved unless the trigger is pulled. And on top of all that, there's the thumb safety (which prevents the trigger from being pulled). I guess I reason that if the internal safeties were to fail, the thumb safety wouldn't make much difference because the trigger isn't being pulled anyway.

I see little mechanical difference between carrying this gun cocked and UNLOCKED and carrying a majority of popular striker guns today (M&P, PPQ, P320, others) that are fully cocked when a round is chambered with no way to decock the gun.

So yes, I'm comfortable carrying C&L. However, I still don't, because I prefer DA/SA to actuating a thumb safety.

EDIT

A different matter entirely (than just carrying the gun) is the risk of accidentally actuating the trigger when holstering the weapon. All the comments about booger hooks and bang switches aside, we are humans and humans fail, and a huge number of negligent discharges happen during exactly that process. You can read about pistol instructors who've preached and taught safety for 30 years who one day have some kind of brain fart on the range and shoot themselves in the leg because they let their guards down just once. I really, really, REALLY believe we are safer when there's a mechanical means of preventing the trigger from moving when putting the gun into a holster, whether that's riding the hammer (which I do), an external thumb safety, or a grip safety. Or the "Glock gadget" that basically lets you "ride" the striker as you would a hammer. Google it if you haven't seen one. Of all these I prefer the thumb safety the least, but only because in my very limited practice I've found it a bit unnatural to have to flick off the safety on the draw. But I've also never seriously trained around that design.
 
Just saw the picture. As a general rule, I’d avoid holsters that require a nylon retention strap to keep the gun from falling out. I’ve got a fee in my holster box and they range from disappointing to flat out unsafe.
 
I have been carrying a P238 condition one for a while. I am also a 1911 guy. Never had a safety get "Knocked off". Sometimes its in my Right Rear pocket in a pocket holster, sometimes in an ankle holster, sometimes IWB in a sticky.

Everybody has to be comfortable.

My girlfriend carries a Kimber Micro Carry (380) with full magazine, empty chamber. She is still getting used to it.

She takes it to work to empty vending machines in her right front pocket, grip sticking out in a sticky holster with a jacket or shirt covering it.

I am glad she takes something. I think she is a target. Finally got her to stop going when its dark out.

She will be putting one in the spout soon. We go and shoot every week. She has probably fired 500 rounds through it. Getting more and more confident each time.
 
Slamfire said:
Yup: Utube video of a guy doing just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs
Click to expand...
Not exactly.

The back story is that he had two different holsters at the range that day, one of them a type that has a pushbutton release on the outside, activated by the trigger finger. He had been practicing with that one, then switched to a different holster. The second holster didn't require flexing the trigger finger to draw the firearm. Muscle memory kicked in, he flexed his trigger finger when he didn't have to (and should not have), and the video recorded the result for posterity.

This is why I prefer not to mix firearms types for carry. I carry 1911s, of different sizes but they all have the same manual of arms. Likewise, I tend to stick with holsters of similar design.
 
Safety off, no grip safety, no Series 80, whatever your concerns are; how would the trigger be pulled, or, even if the trigger weren't pulled, how would the holstered gun fire?

A lot of people who are concerned about it carry a Glock or other, striker-fired gun which is holstered cocked and UNlocked; it's somehow safer because you can't see the striker surrounded by a compressed spring?
 
Many years ago I was reluctant to carry "Cocked & Locked". As I became more experienced with the 1911 platform and understanding how everything worked my reluctance disappeared. Very safe design and in some peoples opinion too many safeties. Especially with an 80's series pistol(firing pin block) it is impossible for the pistol to fire unless the grip safety is depressed,thumb safety disengaged,and trigger is pulled rearward. Even in the event of a mechanical failure(sear nose chips or breaks,hammer hooks break,etc.) there is a half cock notch on the hammer that should catch a falling hammer and a firing pin block (80 series) which will not allow the firing pin to move unless the trigger is pulled or in the case of the Swartz safety(Kimber) the grip safety is depressed.

I feel more comfortable with a Cocked and Locked 1911 than some of the polymer striker fired pistols that are Cocked and Unlocked. Not saying they are unsafe because I also carry Glocks.
 
i know exactly what youre going thru, i bought a sig 938 and like you, i know thats the way youre supposed to carry it but i had issues. Honestly I wish the sigs had the additional beavertail safety like a 1911, i would feel a little better. But really its no difference than carrying a glock, etc except you cant see the hammer....the glock is ready to go and it doesnt even have a safety so one could argue its not as safe as condtion 1 carry. I did carry the sig for a day or 2 cocked and locked without a round in just to see if i could knock off the safety or drop the hammer by accident and it never did...that gave me a little more peace and mind
 
On the striker fired comparison, striker fired pistols usually have a firing pin block and some mechanism to prevent inertial trigger pull. Single-action semi-autos don’t always have the firing pin block. Does the 938 have that feature or is it more series 70?
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
On the striker fired comparison, striker fired pistols usually have a firing pin block and some mechanism to prevent inertial trigger pull. Single-action semi-autos don’t always have the firing pin block. Does the 938 have that feature or is it more series 70?
Click to expand...

The parts diagram on page 32 of the manual pdf here shows a firing pin block, and firing pin block spring.

And, no, they're not really 1911s.
 
The problems is that I've been uncomfortable carrying cocked and locked.
Click to expand...

I am too. I have heard stories of the safety going off...one by my LGS owner who carries one though none of those stories ended in an AD/ND. If it had a grip safety too like a normal 1911 then I would be more inclined.
 
I started carrying my Colt CCO in a outside belt holster made by a well-known maker. But the holster was used when I bought it and I have no idea if anything was done to stretch the leather. So I will not mention the maker or model.

The second time I found the safety OFF when I pulled it from the holster, I unloaded and took a good look. Which I should have done before carrying in that holster.

It was just loose enough that sitting in my car seat moved the gun fore-and-aft enough to cause the thumb safety to move to OFF. As they say, "that's not optimal".

I gave the holster to a friend who likes to carry the 1911 with the hammer down. He put in a hammer and grip safety combo which allows him to thumb-cock the 1911. It worked OK for Colt Peacemakers, I guess :eek:

Bart Noir
 
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Lee, all my Colt 1911s have firing pin blocks. Are you saying that they are not real 1911's? You purist, you :D

Since there has been gunsmithing done to them, I can't tell the difference in trigger pull from the Series '70 or earlier Colts. Yeah, a little trickier to put parts together after a complete cleaning but I like the extra drop safety of the FPB.

Bart Noir
 
More from OP . . . .

Sevens - Thanks for you thought and concern. The clip on the holster doesn't show well in the pic. I have a stiff web LEO type belt and once it's clipped on it ain't coming off accidentally. It's hard to get it off on purpose.

Hal - On your thoughts about the LCP, amazingly I am the same way. When I carry the Beretta Pico there is one in the chamber and no safety. It's a DAO gun. Problems is it is so small I can't shoot it well. I keep working on that. Maybe one day.

Thanks to all who have responded to this post. Lots to learn.

Life is good.
Prof Young
 
My wife was always, "I don't like cocked & locked"
Got her a Ruger 9mm 1911 which she shot quicker & more accurately than her Shield 9mm or Kahr P9
After discovering how well she shot it and understanding how it works (getting past a visible cocked hammer) she decided she does like cocked & locked. ;)
 
My wife was always, "I don't like cocked & locked"

My GF loves my S&W 1911 Performance Center, the commander-sized version with black and orange grips. As we have gotten closer to marriage I've been thinking about what 1911-ish to get her. Kimber 380/9mm or Springfield EMP (with the carry grip) are leading the way.
 
I carry a Sig P938 daily cocked and locked with no worries. In fact, while I've only carried about five years now, most of that time has been with SAO pistols (1911 or HI Power).

Specifically referencing the Sig P238 and P938 models, I don't at all understand the concern. While they may look like 1911's, there're not. And while the trigger may be SAO, the Sig specs reveal the pull weight to be 7.5 - 8.5 lbs. That's not exactly a 1911 hair trigger! Many folks who have no concern whatsoever carrying a modern striker pistol with trigger pulls in the 4.5 -6.0 range, balk at the P238/938 as being unsafe.....

Someone else here on the forum applied the saying, " Out of sight, out of mind" to this case. It seems a hammer that you can see is more dangerous than a striker that you can't:rolleyes:.
 
Hi Powers, 1911s, P938s, CZ75s condition one, and even my Sig P226s condition ZERO! Oops I forgot once or twice, while looking for an armed suspect, who has fled. The holster covers the trigger and my finger stays off it, as I won't attempt to prestage any Sig or Sig Sauer in DA. Daewoo K5s, & Colt D & I Frame revolvers, YES! S&W, NO. Anything with a trigger that stacks, I will prestage. Iv'e shot the Hi Power for over 40 years. The safety detent is not my favorite, but so far, no NDs with a Hi Power. I had one with a Daewoo during the weirdo Korean decocking procedure, so scrap that procedure & just lower the hammer. I dislike carrying a Glock more so than I do carrying a SA or SA/DA hammer fired gun with a safety, in condition one. Not a whole lot, but I am just not a striker fired plastic gun person. I do carry the Glock 43 as a backup though. No worries, just keep your wits about you. The Daewoo K5/DP51 carries condition 1 or zero with the hammer down. A very light trigger pull, and the hammer flips back on a second spring. A little more pull, (about 2x the pull to flip the hammer back) it breaks, and bang! It's very well made gun with a tight fitting parts that rivals Kimber 1911s, which I really don't care for, but the Daewoo is a fine little pistol.
 
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