Combo/survival rifle vs Separate Guns

Some random thoughts...

I found a couple of charts on ammo weights and it sure makes you pause. For home defense I'd stick by a shotgun over near anything but in any situation where i'd be bugging out, it's tough to see it being the top choice. The ammo is just so heavy, it's about 10 pounds for just 100 rounds whereas that same quantity in 5.56 is ~2.75 lbs. And no matter how big or fit one is, there are limits and other things such as water, food, etc, can't really be shrunk or made lighter. Not that I think bugging out is likely or even ideal as living off the land is a whole lot easier in the imagination and TV than reality but if it did happen, i can't see myself humping around a shotgun as my SHTF firearm.

45-70 seems like fun, like one of those marlin guide guns but the ammo prices definitely put me in the camp of admirer and not buyer. I guess reloading could help and brass wouldn't be an issue but that's still a whole lot of lead that has to be bought (or cast which is beyond my abilities) even if you use lower power loads with less powder.

Here's one for all of you that i've been wondering about having never owned a true bolt gun for very long...

How many rounds do you think you could put through a say, .223/.243/.308 bolt gun before it breaks down? I know exactly what that number looks like for a typical main battle rifle like an AK or AR (could be as little as 1500 rounds for a POS rifle with a busted cam or bolt carrier or a broken spring or it could be 10k+ for something well made) as well as a 10-22 which can last for thousands of rounds too. What i'd like to know is how long something like a ruger scout rifle, a howa, or weatherby vanguard would last before needing repairs. Obviously you're going to get to that number faster on a semi-auto platform. Some people will say that they had X rifle for 40 years but in reality maybe that gun has only seen a couple hundre rounds. What i'm looking for is in a round for round comparison how many could you put through an average bolt gun and what would be the most common cause of failure?
 
And no matter how big or fit one is, there are limits and other things such as water, food, etc, can't really be shrunk or made lighter. Not that I think bugging out is likely or even ideal as living off the land is a whole lot easier in the imagination and TV than reality but if it did happen, i can't see myself humping around a shotgun as my SHTF firearm.
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Personally, if you've waited that long before getting out to another location, you need to rethink your plan. That said, the 12 gauge pump can be had to shot slugs, heavy shot like buck, small shot for game birds and even a muzzle loader - that should cover about 95% of the scenarios.

When it comes to survival, KISS is your friend and while ARs are real popular, the guns with the least moving (and breakable) parts rule the day.
 
It's funny watching people scared of a bit of weight. All guns can be heavy or light. Beyond that how much ammo do you really need. A single shot 12 gauge, muzzleloader, or bolt action centerfire can all weight the same.
 
it's not so much the gun.. although some are pretty heavy..
the weight of the gun is really only a problem if you're going to carrying it a lot.. an hour of walking around is fine even with a heavy gun.. but walking around all day.. it wears on you.

The thing of most concern is the ammo weight.. 12ga is heavy stuff.. most loads are AT LEAST 7/8 of an oz (and that's not count hull, wad, powder).. a pound is 16oz.. do the math.. it adds up really quick.

Im not a fan of side settles, butt stock shell holders or slings with shell loops.
I never understood why people would want to make what is usually an already heavy gun even heavier with ammo strapped to it.
 
Combination survival guns are typically neither accurate nor particularly well built. To top that off "survival" means different things to different people. If you are talking about being able to feed yourself in the great outdoors (outside of Africa) a single shot 243 and twelve rounds of ammo can feed you for two years. If you are trying to survive in a combat zone then you might need something else.
 
The thing of most concern is the ammo weight.. 12ga is heavy stuff.. most loads are AT LEAST 7/8 of an oz (and that's not count hull, wad, powder).. a pound is 16oz.. do the math.. it adds up really quick.
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It may add up pretty quick but how long is your survival situation. A week in the wilderness vs years makes a difference. Then again how many times do you think you will need to shoot. A box of 25 should last you a week with shells to spare if all you're doing is acquiring food and fending off the occasional predator.

In the long run it's your decision so take whatever gun or guns you see fit.
 
Could you elaborate? 2 years is a long time and sounds like an extremely efficient use of ammo.
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A library card and checking out a trapping and survival book can save tons of ammo. However did the indians survive without guns.
 
I've heard that a mature bull Moose (~400 lbs. of meat) can last one person about 5-6 months if utilizing the whole animal for food. That would be 2.25 lbs. of meat per day for 6 months. I'm sure that means supplementing it with additional nuts and berries. So ShootistPRS's 12 rounds if all harvested a mature bull moose would last a person a very long time in terms of meat. Your talking 4,800 lbs. of meat. Now that is in the most ideal situations so take it for what you will.
 
A 22/410 is about the last thing I would want in a survival gun but the amount of ammo you can carry makes a huge difference as well. I'd prefer a 22 mag/20 guage but the extra weight of the rifle and ammo probably make that a deal breaker.
 
Blindstitch said:
It may add up pretty quick but how long is your survival situation. A week in the wilderness vs years makes a difference. Then again how many times do you think you will need to shoot. A box of 25 should last you a week with shells to spare if all you're doing is acquiring food and fending off the occasional predator.

In the long run it's your decision so take whatever gun or guns you see fit.
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Ok you got me, I guess we would need to define the scenario.. I typically think of "survival" situation as at least 6months probably more like a year or more, But I suppose it could just as easily be "I lost my way in the woods for a week"

Blindstitch said:
A library card and checking out a trapping and survival book can save tons of ammo. However did the indians survive without guns.
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You can actually see quite a few good videos on trapping on youtube.
They did have bow's though.

But with that you don't actually need a gun at all.. but a really good knife and hatchet would come in handy.

But I made the assumption I suppose that the 12 round was the source of the food, trapping and fishing you could make the round count anything you wanted including zero.

I'll wait for shootist to respond as Im curious what they had in mind when they wrote that.

FishinLuke said:
I've heard that a mature bull Moose (~400 lbs. of meat) can last one person about 5-6 months if utilizing the whole animal for food. That would be 2.25 lbs. of meat per day for 6 months. I'm sure that means supplementing it with additional nuts and berries. So ShootistPRS's 12 rounds if all harvested a mature bull moose would last a person a very long time in terms of meat. Your talking 4,800 lbs. of meat. Now that is in the most ideal situations so take it for what you will.
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How would you keep the meet from spoiling.. I suppose im making an assumption here about the "survival situation" but I'd imagine no salt for curing and probably no structures for smoking.. is it possible to smoke meet on-the-go without a smoke house? or make a temporary smoke house?

I suppose with that much meet you would have to make camp somewhere for a while that would be a lot of meet to haul around otherwise.
 
How would you keep the meet from spoiling.. I suppose im making an assumption here about the "survival situation" but I'd imagine no salt for curing and probably no structures for smoking.. is it possible to smoke meet on-the-go without a smoke house? or make a temporary smoke house?
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You don't need a solid structure to smoke meat. I've seen plenty of people do it in a tent. The question really is what's your environment? Say you're in a northern forest you could make a tent like structure and lay leaved or needle branches across them to make a smoke structure.

Eventually with all those bull moose hides you could probably use the hides in case of branches.

If you're in an area without many trees a pit could be dug.

There's a video you should see just because it's entertaining. This guy a long time ago packed up a bag of essentials and went to live in the wilderness and film a video of him surviving. He took essentials. If he needed an axe he only brought the head and carved a handle.

It's called Alone in the Wilderness. I saw it on PBS the first time but here's some from YouTube.
https://youtu.be/iYJKd0rkKss
 
JoeSixPack,
My brother and I have a cabin in northern Washington state. My brother lived in that cabin for three years to see how he would like to retire there. He harvested deer and bear for meat and trapped some small game. He used 5 rounds a year in his 6mmx30-30 that we built for him. He has a number of wild plants that grow well and are edible and has a small garden to get some other foods.
So the statement that you could live for two years on 12 rounds is actually being generous. You have to process food fast if you are going to store it and he smokes, dries and cans the meat, dries berries and the "grain" crops he has, and cans fruits and veggies. Now we do have the shelter of the cabin but when we were younger we did a lot of backpacking and learned early on how to build a shelter from the material at hand. He built his first cabin at age 10 by himself. We have always made traps for "camp food" and know how to find food in the woods. Neither of us are as young as we were but it doesn't take a lot of work to keep yourself in food. Clothing is a bit harder. :)
 
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