Combatives For Gunfighters

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Gabe Suarez

New member
Most private citizens licensed to carry concealed pistols believe the answer to any threat of violence is the modern "hogleg" on their ever-crowded (and ever stretching) belts. Take note: if you have a handgun but no unarmed combat skills, you will be in for a nasty surprise.

Quite simply, you can't shoot every assailant who accosts you. Moreover, most lethal force encounters occur at contact distance or just beyond it. I will go out on a limb and say that UNLESS you have some sort of simple system of hand to hand fighting in place, you will probably NOT EVEN GET TO YOUR GUN in most confrontations.

It has to do with the issue of distance. In our society, we must routinely allow people within our terminal interval. You can't live keeping everyone outside of seven yards! Also consider that very few assailants will telegraph their movements to you (Excuse me Mr. Upwardly Mobile Sergeant's List Candidate, I am about to come over and kick your *#@! into next week). Give me a break! The adversary will walk up to you like a hundred people do everyday, and then he'll smash you in the mouth with a pipe, or cut your throat before you can even plant your feet and "get your gun side back".

Some sort of skill in a fighting system is important. Unfortunately, although many interested students are schooled in some sort of "defensive tactics" or "martial arts", these systems rarely go beyond the rudimentary or sporting level. A fighting system must go beyond this to encompass, not only controlling and avoiding methods, but also (potentially) non-lethal combatives (the use of body weapons) and perhaps even unarmed deadly force. In short, a fighting system should be simple and designed to win the fight. If it does other things (such as health development, exercise, tradition, etc.), that's fine, but never at the cost of combat utility.

There may be levels to this study and application, but the ability to escalate violence must be built in. As well, cultivation of a fighting attitude is essential to winning the fight. I've seen 80 year old ladies defeat teen aged attackers. It wasn't pretty (Bic Pens in the eye and that sort of thing), but it worked. The development of a warrior attitude may be too much to ask of some of our public forces, but it is nonetheless of paramount importance to us.

Also, there are many dogmatic teachers who say silly stuff like "I carry a gun so I don't have to fight". A dedicated student of fighting skills could kill one of those closed-minded instructors in a surprise fight every single time and walk off with their prized Tactical Ultimate Service Pistol in their belt, as the downed "shooting master" gurgled out his last breath.

One student asked about knives and guns. My opinion on the knife thing is this - Most "defensive" fights (when you have little time to prepare), occur at very close distances. (I've never seen someone get robbed from across the street). More often than not, you are looking at a face to face confrontation. At these distances, a man whose only tool is the pistol has a severe disadvantage, and a bladesman has the actual advantage. Its not due to the superiority of one weapon over another, just due to the dynamics of human reaction time, and the practical nature of each weapon.

In some situations, you can't carry a pistol, but you may be able to have a knife, thus it is important to have some skill in this area as well. Recently when I was in Italy training some of their anti-terrorist guys, we had to leave the issued Beretta 98s at the range and venture into town armed only with knives. Don't underestimate the knife.

Likewise, you should understand the dynamics involved in defending against either the gun or the knife when you yourself are unarmed. Think how some basic and aggressive ability in the hands versus knife realm might have drastically changed recent history.

It was Musashi that said (more or less), "There is a time and place for each weapon. To know one weapon more than another, or to have a favorite weapon is as bad as not knowing it enough". Part of being a solid warrior is to be able to create havoc and destruction on those who would harm us or our country, whether we're armed with an M4 rifle, a #2 Ticonderoga, or only with a clenched fist.

The gun demands distance. If you don't have it, and you rarely will at the outset, you need to do something else first. A shootist who ignores the unarmed combative systems is as lacking as the martial artist who ignores the gun.

Gabe Suarez
Suarez International USA, Inc.
http://www.suarezinternational.com
 
These are great points. It is my experience that the majority of gunowners gravitate towards guns because they can be purchased, not earned. The average gunowner I see at gunshows and the range does not have the discipline to run, lift weights, do a situp, or anything else that is hard (martial arts included). They are like the average American.

... if your only tool is a hammer...
 
Great post and excellent points. The vast majority of all shooters do not mix practical combative skills into their skillset. Things such as accessing the gun with the off-hand, fending off an attacker enough to draw, etc. are generally not covered. So it is refreshing to see a well-known instructor who is interested in these finer points of defensive handgunning.
 
It is my observation that the reason that this is not covered is because of the scheduling of a particular class. "Well, this is a PISTOL fighting class." My response was always, "double thumbs up, but what happens if Billy Bob Lee or Snoop Mopey Mope is on top of us and won't let us call King's X so we can reach our pistola?" :confused: Shouldn't we be ready for that as well as for all things that way we don't panic when it does happen?

There is just one fighting. Thank goodness this concept is getting across to those that train the trainers! :cool:

Gabe, I hope you are able to transform the culture. Best wishes.
 
I have had some experience, and have some skill at 'street fighting'. In my youth, I was much more inclined to mix it up than I am today.
Situational awareness, and just staying away from places where you have no business being is a big help.
I carry a knife, and a handgun and with both of them I have some degree of proficiency. I do not practice, or play with martial arts. For me, the return on investment, is not worth the time it would take, nor do I attach the importance to hand to hand fighting that some do. I am not an 'operator', nor do I play one on weekends.
There are a lot of assumptions made here, that fit the the message that the author is trying to convey, but they are not necessarily all accurate.
 
There are technigues being taught daily to gun owners about how to engage an attacker at close quarters, draw the gun, and get off a shot. Of course, the whole idea is to avoid close quarter attacks altogether and that's another chapter in the book on self-defense.
 
I agree with Gabe. Put another way, if you feel completely naked without a gun, then something is terribly amiss. Under the circumstances, even a "loincloth" is in order.
 
When a well-heeled athlete decides to change sports (e.g., basketball to football) s/he is at an immediate advantage over everyone else starting in that sport. The practiced athlete is already conditioned, knows how to learn a sport's rules and acceptable behaviors, knows how to move, etc. If a gunny were interested in taking a page from the athlete's book, s/he would do well to take up a gig like fencing, medieval re-enactment (a la SCA) or some form of MA. Learning how to think on your feet and physically interact with an opponent are "crossover" skills that are invaluable.

---

Appended to add that if anyone brings up Michael Jordan's baseball career, I'll whomp you with a knotted plow line.
 
I think Gabe makes several good points, but: I am pushing 60, got a bum left knee, and a couple of other physical conditions that preclude any serious physical contact whether it is sport or otherwise. Many other CCW folks follow in the same genre. I carry my 1911 because like the old SAA .45 that Sam Colt made, . . . my 1911 tends to level off the playing field.
Yes, Gabe, I wish I had effective hand to hand skills, . . . I don't and can't, so I rely on my intellect (to be aware of where I am and what is going on) and if push comes shove, Mr. Browning's invention will be my last resort. But by being aware, I should have enough time to make the last resort not be my last move. Too many folks (one was a very good friend just a few months ago) don't pay enough attention to all that is going on around them. Attention to detail is something learned and needs to be practiced at all times, in all situations, with all people. There are clues that confrontation "may" be imminent, . . . look for them and act accordingly.
Staying away from establishments with unsavory reputations, out of areas of town where less than ideal folks congregate, . . . just for starters will help the situation not become confrontational.
May God bless,
Dwight
 
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I think that as we get older, we may have to segue into, "just learn one technique and learn it well."

Assuming one isn't hanging in biker bars, an older person is not lesser likely to need combatives, but MORE likely. For some reason, I have recently been notified about more incidents sbout predators targeting older people.
 
I get off work at 11:00 at nite and drive straight home. I most EMPHATICALLY do not stop at convenience store/gas stations unless I'm just flat out of gas (gassing up in daylight is a BIG item with me). I stay out of south Modesto and west Modesto after dark. If my dog needs a walk at nite the .45 goes for a walk too. Strange noises in the house or back yard are investigated. My wife thinks I'm nuts but I live with the knowledge that it CAN happen to me (or my loved ones). Call it a siege mentality if you will but I'm going to do my damndest to make sure I get a fighting chance.
 
It is true, a person can become a victim of a simple assault for what ever reason. It could be from a motorist with a bad attitude or some screwball that feels you just took his favorite parking place at the supermarket. If this type of situation arises and a person becomes aggresive toward you, but does not employ any weapons other than his hands, feet, size, and possible youth, what type of force should you use? You would have an uphill battle explaining why you deemed it justified to use deadly force against this person. You can't just shoot everyone who may confront you. However, not everyone is physically able to defend themselves in a toe to toe fistfight with an aggresive person. Where does this leave you? Well you must know if you injure or kill an attacker, you are going to have to justify your actions to first the police and then, most likely in a civil lawsuit. To use deadly force against an unarmed person, you are probably going to have to show you have taken a serious beating and reasonably feel you are going to die. Or, due to the size difference and age difference between you and your attacker, one would reasonably conclude that you would be seriously injured or killed. Either one of these situations are going to be undesirable. You are also most likely going to have to show that you tried to retreat in some way from the altercation. My suggestion is to acquire a good brand of pepper spray. Carry this with you along with your concealed weapon. Pepper spray is effective on 90% of the population. It has an effective range of approx. ten feet (depending on the wind direction). This is considered a non-lethal use of force and will give you the time needed to get away to safety. If you still have to resort to deadly force it shows a good faith effort on your behalf to avoid resorting to that extreme. Obviously if an attacker presents himself with a weapon of some sort, you will skip the spray and immediately employ deadly force. Later in court when an attorney tries to paint you as a person with a gun out looking for trouble, you can show that you had other means available to you to defend yourself other than just deadly force. Attorneys want to make it look as though you had the mindset of killing the first person that gave you any trouble. Remember, survival comes in many forms; physical, psychological, legal, and financial. You simply cannot lose in any of these arenas.
Good luck and stay safe!
 
:rolleyes: I have to agree with the comment; ‘There are a lot of assumptions made here, that fit the message that the author is trying to convey, but they are not necessarily all accurate.’

I, also, agree that there are, indeed, a large number of, ‘civilians with guns’ out on the streets, today. I’m just as leery of these, ‘deadly dudes’ as I am of strangers who arrive on the firing line while I’m practicing. The Good Lord, only, knows how many times over these past years I’ve been endangered by other people with firearms. My acquired opinion is that I, simply, don’t trust most people with guns. Today, I am very careful about whom I go shooting with; and, all of the shooters in my group hesitate to go to the range alone. What is more, in the past 10 years I know of two men in my gun club who have had to deal with someone attempting to steal their guns at the range – Both were saved by backup guns; and one of them had to quickly pull on a, ‘jovial attacker’ immediately before he closed-in on him!

Yes, I do wish that they handed out, ‘common sense’ with every CCW; but you and I, both, know that this isn’t the case. Still we’re not, all, children: If you take a step back and watch him for awhile a, ‘civilian with a gun’ will expose himself and his naiveté; and, as for a, ‘stone-cold killer’, he also has, ‘tells’ about him that will give him away. The trick is to be, ‘ready’ enough to quickly spot the difference between the two.

If you let everyone walk up to you, all the time and under every conceivable circumstance, you’re being ingenuous. If you’re old enough to vote, then, you’re also old enough to recognize, ‘When’ the necessity to, ‘cover an early draw’ is before you.

I’ve got a friend who has the habit of keeping his left-hand in an outside pocket; and, I know a patrol officer who, always, walks up to traffic stops in exactly the same way. Yes, many people are, in fact, careless about their personal safety; however, it’s equally true that most people aren’t stupid. Anytime a stranger is too friendly or suddenly affable, that’s the time to put your left-hand in your pocket. Personal reactions and experience are, a lot, like knifefighting: You have to be a little bit quicker and exactly, ‘on the mark’ in order to prevail. Everyone in the group of older, ‘seasoned’ gunmen I travel with knows this! Age requires all sorts of physical compensation; and, at the same time, experience provides that, ‘necessary edge’ needed to prevail.

My father-in-law, once, said to me; ‘An old man beats a young man every time.’ In large part I believe he was correct! If you have the wit to overcome that, ‘moment of civilized hesitation’ which years of polite society inculcates into every one of us, then you should be alright for CQB. The, ‘dead giveaway’ is the other guy’s necessity to have to move in close – That’s always your first warning! It doesn’t matter, ‘How’ he attempts it; it DOES matter that you, ‘keep up with the moment’ and don’t hesitate to do things like saying; ‘That’s close enough!’ If, for ANY reason, the command is ignored – you KNOW what to do, next! Don’t be hesitant; don’t be shy; DO IT.

(No, God help me, I didn’t just tell you to start shooting; but, now, you should be prepared to accurately assess the situation. The rest is up to your, hopefully God-given, common sense!) ;)
 
There are certainly many people who seem to depend entirely on the concept of shooting in self defense. And I agree, it is the fighting mindset which should be the center of the concept of self protection. Although the handgun and other tools are designed with this purpose in mind, with the proper mindset anything and everything is a potential weapon.

IMO the knife is potentially more deadly than the pistol at contact distances because of it's practical characteristics.

A handgun has the potential to push a certain number of holes into or through a target. How many get there, and how decisive they are, depends on many things. A good sized knife - and that is a subjective phrase, but let's just say "large enough" - once thrust inside the abdomen or chest cavity does not have to be withdrawn and redirected to inflict extreme and likely fatal injury. Most people seem to think of knife strikes in terms of "slash" or "stab". However a stab can simply be the entry into a target area to destroy everything within blade length on the inside, or the mere starting point for very long cut literally opening up the body cavity. Either is probably going to be catastrophic.

But as well as representing a considerable threat in the hands of an assailant, I also consider the knife to be a practical secondary or primary weapon of self defense for the same reasons, depending on the circumstances.

This leads to the subject very popularly referred to as "knife fighting". It is usually described as two persons fighting with knives. I call that "duelling" and it is not something I would consider engaging in, with a knife or anything else. A knife IMO is most likely to be effectively employed defensively as a surprize to an assailant, against any threat where deadly force would be justified. While there may be times when this is not so, I believe that this is the best general tactic.
 
:rolleyes: Knives, huh! OK, William E. Fairbairn is credited with the remark; ‘A fighting knife must have a blade, at least, five inches long in order to reach the heart from all possible angles of attack.’

After a lifetime of, ‘playing with knives’ I will say this: At CQB distances, a handgun is, unquestionably, a better weapon than any knife. Very few people know how to kill quickly with a blade – which shares many characteristics with an arrow. Arrows and blades kill the same way, mainly, by bleeding the target out. The, ‘shock’ of being hit by a bullet simply isn’t there. Three or four loud blasts and the concomitant impact from the bullets are more devastating to most victims than several slash wounds and many (but not all) stab wounds, all, delivered within the same timeframe. Neither weapon guarantees an instant stop against an assailant at ECQB distance; and it should be remembered that it takes a strong man to launch a devastating attack with a knife. At the same time a, ’98# weakling’ with a handgun has the ability to deliver, at least, as much damage in the same amount of time.

In most efforts to avoid being cut by an attacker, there is a MUCH GREATER RISK to have tendons or ligaments slashed and the target limb incapacitated than there is to get effectively stabbed between the ribs. There are a few, ‘knife books’ out there by experienced European assassins whose favorite tool was the knife. A common thread among these books is the necessity to get in close, strike first, and withdraw to watch the target, first, weaken and, then, go down. This behavior might be underwritten by the fact that a, ‘short blade’ will shock the body and slowly prevail upon the mind while a handgun will immediately shock, both, the body as well as the senses!

At CQB distance, even, an average person may deflect an initial knife attack – IF he sees it coming; however, there is NOT a whole lot any, ‘knifer’ can do against anyone with a drawn gun who is standing 6 feet away. I agree with the poster who emphasized that knives tend to be, ‘surprise weapons’. That’s correct! In order to use a knife effectively, surprise is imperative. ‘Knifefighting’ in classic Hollywood portrayal is, indeed, dueling. Outside of a dojo, I’ve never really seen or heard of it being done.

Somebody is, probably, going to bring up the subject of, ‘ Tueller drills’. Good point! In any martial art I, ever, studied we were always taught to avoid the attacker’s, ‘body centerline’ and sweep the attacker’s aggressive motion away from our own bodies. This is the part of self-defense that I’ve never seen in a practice drill. What’s wrong with firing your pistol, ‘for effect’ right in the face of a closing attacker while you, simultaneously, STEP ASIDE! If your gun is low, use one or both hands against the attacker’s shoulder or outstretched arm, and sweep him away from you. This way you should be able to get another close quarter shot(s) off.

The other defense we used to use against a blade is the LOW kick – preferably delivered from the angle of a classic Inquartata strike. (A half-turn along the outside edge of the attacker’s foremost body point.) ;)
 
[Arc Angel]"... At CQB distance, even, an average person may deflect an initial knife attack – IF he sees it coming; however, there is NOT a whole lot any, ‘knifer’ can do against anyone with a drawn gun who is standing 6 feet away..."

.... 6 feet is awful close. And there are quite a few people who can cover three times that in a very short period of time. Much depends on the skill, speed and reflexes of the two parties involved, but this in itself introduces significant variables.

If someone rushes you from 6 feet with a knife and you do not inflict a solid CNS hit you could be in serious trouble. You will be faced with the possibility that they are equally skilled - or better - in unarmed fighting as well.

You bring up a good point about shooting for the face and using it to mask a sidestep (or deflection). Where an attacker closes with a knife I think the face could be as good a target as any. Firstly, a solid hit is likely to end things then and there, and secondly absent a solid hit it has still got to be tough closing, eyes on a blazing muzzle. If the target is a good distance away, the Mozambique drill is as good as any or perhaps to stitch from the groin up, concentrating on the nose should several to the body fail to produce the desired effect. This allows for the possibility of a solid hit to the pelvis, the spine, and if nothing else serves to get a couple in center mass, when if there is no lapse in the attacker's interest, the more decisive area targeted.
 
Imo...

One should start close and work out re. MA training. A person should be comfortable in all phases of MA.

1. Empty hands at all empty hand ranges
2. Knife
3. Impact
4. Firearms

I am the first one to say that most of my MA training has been right there at #1, much to the detriment of #2 especially. I have a fair amt of training with 3 and 4, but not as much as I do #1. I know where I need work.

There are people who spend all their time on one of these 4 aspects-who are world class at that particular aspect. It is tough to maintain that level in one aspect (not that I personally would know), let alone all of them.

I shoot for proficiency in all and above all, KISS. This is mainly because, to be honest, I don't have time to train anything but that which is most effective and simple.

Note-physical conditioning is a blanket that covers all aspects of MA. Without task-oriented PT, effectiveness will suffer. For me, this means weight training 3x per 2 weeks ("Beyond Brawn" is my bible) and lots of aerobic/aenerobic burst training-I do cardio for 30 minutes for general health about 5x a week, but when I do, I will intersperse with aenerobic bursts-sprints when biking, rowing, running, etc.

Also, when hitting the heavy bag, I will often flurry for 10-15 seconds. This type of intense short duration training is key to prepping for a real fight IMO.

A couple more points:
Having an alert mind and following your instincts helps. Many, even those who have developed tactical awareness, forget to mention this point-as I did at first.

Also, as I age, I will depend more on knife/impact/firearms. I know I can't handle as much as I used to empty handed. Of course, multiple assailants, a weapon, etc. throw empty hands right out the window in most cases. Work on the skills, work on the transitions. Drill scenarios.

When I say "MA", I don't neccesarily traditional MA, although it can certainly work. I am not up on what the vogue terms are, "SD training", "Combatives", whatever. My working MA defintion is, "Combat/warfare skills acquired by experience, study or observation". Combines the definitions of "martial" and "art". Words are just words.
 
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The 83 year old woman who shot and wounded an intruder hereabouts didn't have any martial arts training yet she stopped him cold and the cops did the rest. I thought that was the whole idea of having a gun. You don't have to be 6' 12" tall and weigh 350 LB and you don't have to own a black belt in karate. Oh sure, it'd come in handy from time to time, but then again it'd come in handy even if you weren't pack'n. It looks to me like this is one of those ideas that has taken on a life of its own without a whole lot of substantiation.
 
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