Combat Rifle vs. Pistol - Does it matter?

4.) Using it as a defense weapon in the home, combat rifles are overkill considering a shotgun or pistol would be better suited.
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A 12 gauge shotgun is far more destructive at close range than any combat rifle. Whether to the attacker, or to your home.

A lightweight 223 semiauto rifle is going to be much easier for the average person to shoot and master, due to the dramatically lower recoil. But it will also cost much more than a combat shotgun.

If one hunts and/or target shoots with a shotgun, as I do, when you might feel more at home with a shotgun. With good buckshot ammo, you can definitely put far more lead into the air more quickly than with any rifle.

I have my FN SLP loaded with magnum #4 Buckshot ammo with 34 .23 caliber shot in each shell. Since my FN holds 8 +1 shells, that is 9 x 34 = 306 .23 caliber lead balls that can be fired without reloading.

The average person is much better off with a lighter recoiling weapon that has less muzzle blast, however.

I mainly rely on my Glock 17 for home protection. My FN SLP is only an emergency backup.

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For defensive purposes
1. Handgun (if you can carry)
2. Shotgun (for home defense, and even in a riot people are likely to respect a 12ga. hole pointed toward them)
3. Rifle (decent for HD, good against animals, good for combat [but when do you expect that to happen to the average civilian!?])
 
In my situation, a pistol would be ranked as most important. Naturally its my CCW and its the first weapon I would grab in house in case of bump in night. If time would permit that handgun would escort me to a shotgun. Owning my share of rifle`s, they`re used mostly for hunting,plinking and pesky four legged critters but with the hills around here a shotgun will usually suffice for the critters as well. Its just a bit more messy.
 
I would not depend on just one firearm for defensive purposes. My standards are a rifle, pistol and shotgun.
Get what you can use best for most situations.
 
Rifle Preference

If I were on a really tight budget, I would buy a rifle first, and use that both for pest control and home defense. My preference would be a semi-auto with a 15-round magazine. (I have discovered that, with the members of my family, the recoil from a 12-gauge is too difficult to recover from, to allow a reasonably fast second shot.)

Since I value my family's survival more than my own, that rifle would stay at home where it's needed most.

Next I would get a pistol for personal protection, and the protection of my family when we are out and about.

There are a lot of things to be said for the rifle as a home-defense weapon:

1) a BG fears it more than a handgun, because he knows it is more accurate, more powerful and longer-ranging than any handgun he may be carrying;

2) a rifle hits harder than most handguns considered "adequate" for personal defense: in a home-invasion scenario involving multiple assailants, this can mean one shot per BG (not 2, as with a handgun) to solve the problem;

3) you may or may not have noticed it, but BG's have only 2 choices when confronted by LE officers armed with rifles---they either surrender outright or shoot it out. They very rarely run away, because of the (often mistaken) belief that an LE with a rifle can take them out before they can run to the end of the block.

Just my 2 cents' worth...
 
First rule - Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

Second rule - Always bring enough gun.

A handgun is a good first choice, especially up close. Perfect practice. Perfect practice. Perfect practice. First choice is in .45 ACP, then .40 S&W, then .357 Magnum. 9mm and others of similar diameter are all right, just not my personal first choice.

My second choice would be the shotgun. Preferably a 12ga. pump. Load with #4 buckshot. Less likely that you will overpenetrate, and #4 buckshot is just as deadly. Next, consider the 20 ga. Recoil is less harsh, and the shot charge comes out just as fast, although less weight. Unless there would be an extended shootout, the recoil can be discounted to an extent. Most people in stress situations are unaware of recoil, or its amount.

Third choice would be a lever action rifle. A good Model 94 Winchester, or Marlin 336 is good. Get one with a short (18", or less) barrel. The .30/30, or .35 Remington are good calibers. What is better in a lever gun would be a .45/70 or .444 Marlin. You get the advantage of a big slug (300 gr, or heavier) running at about 1400 fps (from a short barrel). A hollow point bullet will not over-penetrate, and the action is nearly foolproof. You may also consider a lever gun in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or .45 Colt. With a similarly chambered revolver, your ammunition is less complicated.

There are also used .44 Magnum Ruger carbines out there. They make a handy defensive gun, too.

In a defensive environment, .223, 7.62x39, .308, etc., are all over-penetrating rounds. However, as a last resort, whatever works.

Unless you are an expert in their use, knives are in the same class as the bayonet. They're only good when you're out of ammo, and it's the last stand.

Late at night, which is the likely time of an encounter, do you have the presence of mind, alertness, and enough time, to react with a long gun?
 
I'm not normally a big fan of the Bushido (and I think their morals stank to hell) however they did come up with some good ideas.

Their short sword (Wakizashi) was mainly for indoor use and their "always there" piece. The Katana (and bigger stuff) was for full-on combat you knew was coming, or a friggin' battlefield.
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Hi Jim

Just a point or two:

You are thinking of Japan in WWII. They espoused a bastardized version of Bushido in which a conquered enemy was sub-human, and the highest honor was to die for the Emperor. This was not Bushido, this was brainwashing. The point is often mis-represented in history books, which regularly describe Bushido as the mindset of 1930's Japan, but they only get it half right. The warped code that Japan followed during that time was not an example of the tenets of Bushido, rather it was an example of a totalitarian regime forging their own image of what they wanted Bushido to become. Doesn't excuse Japan's actions though
 
Reminds of a story told by Arthur Godfrey when I was in Korea."A group of Japanese pilots were being briefed by a Japanese general, prior to takeoff,he explained that once in the air the the wheels would drop free of their fighters and their planes were loaded with 500 lbs of explosives and congratulated them on the sacrifice they were making for their country.There was a moment of silence then from the back of the room came the voice of one of the pilots."Are you out of your frigging mind"
 
If I need to defend myself, I would use a pistol and shotgun. If I could afford an AR, I'd get one, I would think it would be better suited for protection. 30 round mags beat what I have at the present time.
 
How's about a pistol caliber carbine?
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I've considered these and, from my understanding, velocity may or may not increase significantly out of a carbine depending upon caliber and other factors. I was looking at a Ruger carbine .40 SW but the carbine only increases factory ammo velocity by about 10%. A rifle would be more accurate than a pistol at moderate ranges, say over 25 yard, but it would be more cumbersome and easier to wrestle away than a pistol and be less powerful than a either a shotgun or other rifle. Now, I understand the .357 magnum out of a carbine length lever action normally will be significantly faster than out of a pistol.
 
handguns would be first ...then shotgun if needed...couldn't see using a rifle at home...but if SHTF was to be ...ar 10 will stop autos just as well as people...something the 5.56 isn't to good at...but I bought shotgun first then several handguns then a rifle...today was a handgun next anothr rifle ...then I AM DONE...:rolleyes: ...no really done ...maybe:cool:
 
Assuming we're talking about combat and not defense, then I say all three. A large pistol as a sidearm, a shotgun at the ready and a bolt action rifle for surprise engagements or similar long distance shooting(>100 meters). Throw in a demo satchel and a secure radio and we're ready to play Father Goose when the ChiComms land a la Red Dawn... As far as assault weapons go, if the excrement really hits the oscillator, there will be corpses with AKs or ARs or FALs or whatever all around... really as many as you have rounds for your rifle, provided you took the time to learn how to use it.

That said, show me a nice G3 clone and I'll probably want that too!
 
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Something I posted a while back on another thread (discussing rifle vs. shotgun for HD):

"Think about the automatic implications of a home self defense scenario for a moment...

If a stranger breaks into your occupied house, you are almost certainly and automatically involved in a life and death situation. You have no way of reading the intruder's intentions until violence explodes in your face. Your base assumption must be that the intruder/s are (at least potentially) armed and prepared to deal with resistance.

If a known aquaintance or relative invades, you are probably in worse straits because emotional domestic issues or personal grievances are involved.

In either of these cases, you are about to be involved in a frenzied and deadly situation. The bet is your life and the lives of those under your roof. You are going to a gunfight. You are about to be involved in your very own penultimate life experience...inside your own house. Bring enough gun.

There is no question that a handgun provides adequate deadly defense.

There is no question that a shotgun trumps the handgun significantly in terms of lethality, capacity, barrier penetration, range, and hit probability.

But a good rifle trumps a shotgun by offering the same lethality at a wider array of ranges, against a wider variety of barriers, and with higher cartridge capacity. All of your options are covered with a rifle. Only some are covered by a handgun or a shotgun.

For most folks, the real questions boil down to:

1. Economy - How many $$ do you have to apply to a defensive weapon?
2. Familiarity - How comfortable/practiced are you with your chosen weapon?
3. Profile - How silly (or not) do you feel awaiting trouble with a battle rifle vs a hunting shotty vs an unobtrusive handgun.

Assuming your wallet will bear the strain, I believe that a good semi-auto (or lever-action) rifle is the superior choice.

I would unhesitatedly choose an AR over the shotgun or handgun at any ranges involved. It does everything that I am going to need a weapon to do, it is the weapon with which I am most familiar, and I will be as well armed as I think I can be.

After years of wrestling with the whole birdshot vs buck in the bedroom penetration equation, I've concluded that I'm not using anything less than #4 buck in any shotgun. If I need to shoot, it needs to be lethal past the bedroom door. With buck (#4, #1, #00) or slugs, the shotgun is going to zip through walls anyway.

Might as well go with 5.56...

I will make a best effort to remain aware of my backstop, but when someone is trying to kill me, overpenetration becomes secondary to survival. If I can't take a shot, then I can't take a shot...regardless of weapon or caliber.

Just an opinion..."

YMMV...
 
Assuming your wallet will bear the strain, I believe that a good semi-auto (or lever-action) rifle is the superior choice.
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And the wallet strain of buying a good lever action rifle isn't really that much of a strain at all. A NIB Marlin 336 (A or W) can be had for less than $400 at your friendly local big box sporting goods store. I gave $299 for my NIB 336A at the local Dick's just this past Black Friday (post Thanksgiving Sale). You can pay more for a fancier 336C model, but unless you just gotta have a fancy walnut stock, then why? Other than the wood that the stock is made from and the forearm cap (on an A model) vs barrel band (C and W models), it is the same rifle.

Anyway, 7 rounds of .30-30 will put the hurt on a BG. Mine resides in the L shaped walk-in master bedroom closet -- the fallback position.

In our HD plans, we (SWMBO and I) have our handguns. And there's the rifle. The handguns are there for the sake of convenience and because it is better to have a handgun at hand than it is to have to run to the closet (maybe with a BG between us and it) to get to the rifle. A handgun close at hand is better than a rifle that you can't get to. But a rifle in hand is better than a handgun in hand, especially when you are also in a defensible position.

There is no question that a shotgun trumps the handgun significantly in terms of lethality, capacity, barrier penetration, range, and hit probability.
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I'll go along with that, all except for 1 point. I have yet to see a shotgun with a 17 round quick change magazine. But one thing that you didn't bring up is that an empty shotgun (or rifle) makes a pretty good melee weapon as a club -- a much better weapon than an empty handgun does. That's also why I prefer a real solid stock on a defensive long gun.

Every free man should own a rifle.
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+1
A shotgun will do. A handgun is better than nothing and still protects the home. But a rifle is what best stands between a free man and tyranny.
 
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gb_in_ga: Excellent points.

The wallet strain comment was directed more to the purchase of an AR (or equivalent type rifle). Lever actions are great values and affordable to almost anyone.

Along that vein, another comment I made in a similar/related post some time ago (handgun vs. shotgun):

Think about it...any American can arm themselves with a $100 used 12 GA and be better armed than someone with a $3,000 dollar pistol....
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I'm not normally a big fan of the Bushido (and I think their morals stank to hell) however they did come up with some good ideas.

Their short sword (Wakizashi) was mainly for indoor use and their "always there" piece. The Katana (and bigger stuff) was for full-on combat you knew was coming, or a friggin' battlefield.
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I did a lot of studying of this myself when I was younger. I used to love studying foreign philosophies and cultures. Way back in the day, the Samurai were the only people allowed to carry both a Daito (formal word for Katana) and a Wakizashi at the same time. Ronin, or wandering samurai with no lord, were not allowed to carry both weapons. The samurai prided themselves on their use of the Daito and it would be their first and last option in any battle, indoors or outdoors, and if they failed their Wakizashi would be the blade in which they took their own life. The Daito itself was the sword that never left the side of its owner, and for a long time the blades were considered to have holy powers. You'd often see signs in front of swordsmiths' homes that portrayed them as holy men doing holy work by forging a sword. There are long, long writings about swordsmanship from the far east, including the book of 5 rings, the life giving sword, and the sermon. Perhaps the most applicable piece of the way of the samurai to the modern world is the mindset they carried into battle. If you get a chance to read the books I mentioned, you might find yourself more mentally prepared for the possibility of a future confrontation.
 
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