combat flashlights

B

boogeyman

New member
Anyone who has been in a pitch black room and is suddenly confronted with bright light knows how it feels. In short, dissorienting. I am not a fan of the rail systems; but, have never found how some are able to shoot so well with a light in one hand and the gun in the other. Can you folks help me out with some good advice? I would really like to know if many consider X number of lumens to be a minimum amount in a good combat light. Also, I would like to know if certain lights such as surefire's Z2/Z3 and blackhawk gladius lights offer that much of a benefit for having that little nob, or whatever it's called, for supposed better handling with a two handed shooting grip. Any and all info is greatly appreciated.

-Adam
 
I own 3 Surefire lights. I received the first as a gift and got bit by the bug. The biggest problem is NOT playing with them. Murphy's law states that you will play with your combat light and have a no life in your batteries when you need them most. I got the L2 Lumamax which has a dual output LED. The lower power lasts a very long time and the high power lasts about an hour. The problem is it is pretty big. As for the 6P versus the G2, they are basically the same light except one is plastic and the other is aluminum. I think the G2 is a great value and the finish is less abrasive. Some might say this is better for grip but it will scratch up a lot of things and is very abrasive.

I hope this helps. Good luck and DON'T PLAY WITH IT WHEN YOU DON'T NEED IT!!! :D

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/878/sesent/00
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/889/sesent/00
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/1141/sesent/00
 
Streamlight...

I kind of like the Rechargables by Streamlight. The Stinger is a nice little compact model. You can put it on the charger next to your bed. You don't ever have to wonder if your battery will go dead half way down the hall... They've got a bunch of nice models out now. Those suckers are BRIGHT too! My buddy has a Surefire. That is very bright as well. I just don't like the idea of those expensive batteries...
 
The G2 doesn't have the lock out feature of the P6----I have 2 G2's and 1 P6------the P6 is the minimum Surefire I'll buy anymore----While the G2 is bright---it just doesn't play well in the real world without the lockout feature.
 
The G2Z is pretty sweet. It can be had for 75.00 if you are an NRA member. It has a lockout. You can buy batteries for $15 per dozen. That's not that bad.
 
Personally, I think 60 lumens is the lower limit to fight with, and all but a few SureFire’s meet that. The “little knob” you refer to on the Z models enable the Rogers technique to be used easier. Basically, you hold the light with the weak hand between the index and middle finger like a cigar. In a two-hand hold, the fleshy part of the hell of the hand depresses the light switch.

IMHO, don’t worry about practicing with the light. You need to perfect your technique before you really need it. If battery cost is a concern, order them direct from SureFire. www.surefire.com They will only cost $1.25 each instead of the outrageous prices other places charge for 123A batteries.

Denny
 
The new G2 has the lock out feature. I just bought one. Another thing with the Surefires is you can change the lamps on the 6P or G2 for the 120 lumen bulb. This eats batteries with a serious vengence though and heats up QUICK. This is only for emergency use in my opinion. If you play with it even a little, the battery will be dead before you know it. The Surefire batteries are pretty cheap as mentioned.

I got the L2 because I like the versatility of a dual output light. It is pretty big though and hard to carry. The output is 100 lumens in the high output mode. The color of the light is very white and lights things up a pretty good distance away.
 
Actually, I'm getting away from the Surefire line. While they are great lights, there's something about their marketing and politiking that just doesn't sit well with me.

I've had great luck with my Pelican M6 LED light. It's the same size as the SF 6P, works with a SF clickie tailcap, and has a very good beam. For a general-purpose light, I couldn't be happier.

My next light, possible a weapon-light or a 3-cell handlight, I'm looking at www.pentagonlight.com Their wares are very reasonably priced, and all the reviews from end-users has been extremely positive.

Here's a good link with some photos and background info. G&R is good people to buy from, and he'll be getting more of my money in the near future.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/pentagonlight.htm
 
I shoot our night matches with an old 3-d mag light, money's tight right now, and the Harries' Technique. Practice, you'd be suprised how well you can shoot. Alos, try no light. Yeah, no light. Allow your eyes to adjust to the dark. There's a lot of ambient light in most places.

Having said all that, there's a Nitrolon in my near-future.

Staysafe.
Bob
 
BobF,

shoot our night matches with an old 3-d mag light, money's tight right now, and the Harries' Technique. Practice, you'd be suprised how well you can shoot. Alos, try no light. Yeah, no light. Allow your eyes to adjust to the dark. There's a lot of ambient light in most places.
[quote/]

I agree with you in that holding a 3 D Maglite is not challenge when using the Harries' techniqhe.
But the Maglite 3 "D" output only 39 lumens of light and very focused as well.
In many "clearing a room" operations is not ambient light at all and if you find a big room it is recommended that you put as much light as you can to avoid lossing time panning the light and exposing yourself as a target.

What you need is a light that will really blind the oponent lurking in the dark.
I consider the bare minimum a 200 lumens light such as the Surefire C-3 with the HOLA lamp.
But prefer a M-4 or even the M-6 with the 500 lumens lamp.
As not everybody can afford to have a MEGALIGHT like that and pay MEGABUCKS in batteries ($10.00 for 20 minutes run)
I will recommend that they take a look at my modification of the Maglite to output 951 lumens as my flashlight is rechargeable those lumens are free.
see this link,
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169074

My rechargeable batteries can be recharge 1000 times, for 500 hours of free light before you will need another $24.00 rechargeable pack,
Before a Surefire M-6 can be run for 500 hours you'll have spend over $5,000.00 in batteries!!!

This three pictures will show you some differences in light output.

Beamshot with a regular Maglite 3 D (39 lumens)

enlarge39lumens.jpg


Beamshot with a Surefire M-6 (500 lumens)

M-5beamshot1.jpg


Beamshot with a Maglite modified for 951 lumens (black bear's MAG 951)

MAG951bas2.jpg


If some people are so technical is because today it can make the difference between life and death, if it will no matter many LEO's will be carrying K frame 38 specials instead of the last tupperware wonder nine.

Bullets are high tech now compared with the regular lead round nose slug of 20 years ago, comunications are the province of sophisticated two way radios instead of a wistle, and crime science have change a lot since Quince, according to what I am seeing in CSI every Sunday night!!

Why not apply some high tech to lights too!!!

black bear 84
Click to expand...
 
951 lumens. how did you come up with that figure? furthermore, how in the hell did you do that to a regular mag? also, wouldn't you agree that it is a hell of a lot easier to shoot with a small handheld than a gigantic mag? i'm not attempting to start a war or anything like that, i'm just curious as to why/how you did all of that to a mag lite. that is some serious light, regardless of the number of lumens.

to everyone else, is the surefire defender w/ strike bezel a marketing ploy or is there real world significance to their product?
 
Boogeyman, re: your question about the defender's bezel and its relevance. I have not used the bezel as a weapon. I have received only fam. training on light strikes. However, I would say that if you carry a light at all times, it could be useful. People recently groaned when the military redesigned their bayonts b/c "nobody uses them anymore." Well, I know of one Marine that extinguished the life light of an Iraqi insurgent with a bayonet. Sometimes the most basic weapons are the best. Your best bet is to ask that question at warriortalk or some other like minded site that has people that train in combatives.
 
boogeman,

I have one of the Surefire E2D, I am thinking of giving it to my wife to put with her car keys, as a ilumination and a defensive tool.

I consider the form of defense with implements like that, more of a "tactic defense" to be employed by the womens, you know, like cats they all go for the face, the sharp bezel of the E2D will collect a lot of DNA evidence. :D

If you run with a E2D in your pocket it will draw blood out of your leg, and the prefered point to strike seem to be the carotic artery, if you get a lot of blood out of them they get scare and desist of their attack. I am talking here about rapists been repelled, so giving one to a gf or wife could be a good idea.

My MAG 951 flashlight use a super-bulb that when is estimulated by a current of 10.8 volts produces 1234 lumens in a Integreated Sphere spectotometer.
To arrive at the 951 figure I just deduct the customary 23% of losses thru reflector and thru lens reflection.

I agree that is easier to use a shorter light with the Harries' position, but if you try the Maglite 3 D you will not find it unconfortable.
Still, for those that insist in something smaller I have the black bear 678 lumens, based on the Maglite 2 "D" 10 inches long.

Here is a picture of it, next to my Surefire M-6

b.jpg


black bear
 
I realize there is a need for light, but I think that some have been overcome with 'techno-itis'.
Click to expand...

I kind of have the same feeling about flashlights. I know the inside of my house far better than anyone else. I see darkness as a real advantage to me inside of my house. If I need to see a burglars face just before shooting, then I think just about any old flashlight will do the trick, or even flipping up the old light switch itself.

As to outside my house, I can't even remember the last time I was in a dark and unfamiliar place. I don't go to places like that.

However: There are people who are often enough in places that are dark and unfamiliar. I suspect that it is mostly a matter of duty that finds them there. For those fine people, light may well be life. I can really understand their dedication to having the best of all possible lights. And knowing they are out there makes me feel a bit better. LEOs (real cops not rolling meter maids) and EMTs come to mind.

For those folks - LIGHT THEM UP!
 
Walmart sells the Brinkman Maxfire LX.
It Uses Lithium batteries, with a Xenon bulb.
It is a (sort of) copy of the 6P.

I first heard about it on AR15.com..
The local Walmart can't keep them in stock.
Sells for about $20.
Apparently they hold up well to being mounted on an AR.
Link:
http://www.brinkmann.net/Shop/Detai...ame=Lithium-Xenon&seriessku=FLA-2000-4&id=138

I don't have one yet, but plan to pick one up soon.

I have a couple of Streamlight Scorpions.
They are small, light and very bright.
You can find them for $30.
We issue them at work, and they hold up well to abuse.
Streamlight Scorpion
 
I bought my Brinkman MaxFire at Wal Mart last March, and it is a great light for a great price. So far I have been VERY satisfied with the brightness and the coverage this light provides. I recommend it to any and all who are looking for a tactical light.

R/fiVe
 
Combat Flashlight?

Sometimes a light comes in handy but I 'spect someone has been spending entirely too much time between Pennys, Sears and The Radio Shack. :rolleyes:


Sam
 
LEDs are only now just starting to reach the light output of incandescents.

Even at lower outputs, I view them to be far superior, in that:
- they will not burn out for many years
- they are not subject to breakage from shock/dropping, the way incandescents notoriously are
- the light color does not go yellow/orange as the batteries wear out

I feel that these qualities stand in stark contrast to incandescents, to the point where they make them obsolete.

I am looking at an Inova T3 to purchase online -- it puts out 85 lumens for 2 hours, using two common lithium (123A) batteries. It can be had for under $75. I currently have one of their much lower power lights (the X1) and even that one (unknown lumens, but definitely under 30 I believe) is uncomfortable to look directly at.

I am LED-loyal 100% now. No other flashlights need apply. When I read on the Sure-Fire website about "spare lamps," I chuckle in contemptuous disgust. I mean, I know their lights are bright, but having to deal with burnouts? Nuh-uh. Never again.

-blackmind
 
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