grdpounder
New member
I was at the local range today and had a dicussion with the RSO who also happens to be a Special Forces Soldier, he was telling me that Center of Mass is out and now the target is the pelvic girdle. Has anybody heard of this?
COM?
- Thread starter grdpounder
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I'm just gonna guess that he was confusing a valid technique for dealing with body armor clad opponents with wholesale implementation of new training doctrine. It's just a technique...not a lifestyle. 
Who did he say it was "out" with? Center mass is still "in".
We don't teach pelvic girdle aimpoint as anything but an option.
Who did he say it was "out" with? Center mass is still "in".
We don't teach pelvic girdle aimpoint as anything but an option.
To me, that says it all...he's trained to shoot when he has a full auto weapon with a 30 round mag and several spares mags about his body, AND he has help around him. Personal defense is usually with a very limited supply of ammo and you're usually the only one shooting.
Two VERY different situations requiring VERY different tactics.
My CWP class qualified COM.
i actualy have heard of a version of this. i am not saying i am in agrement with it. but the philosophy behind the self defense aplication of this is:
you look just over the sights
as you draw and come up on target you fire two rounds into the pelvic area. the theory i was told that this is the fastest way to get acurate rounds on target in a damaging area. the weight of the body rest on this point. if your lucky enough to damage the bone structure the body will begin to fall and bad guys don't shoot well when falling.
after two very quick rounds to the pelvic area (basicaly the gun just continues up without stopping) you then deliver several to the chest and continue up to the head. if you feel the threat is still there.
it is a very fast fire method. i have shot this at the range and surprisingly i shot very acurate out to some long ranges.
you look just over the sights
as you draw and come up on target you fire two rounds into the pelvic area. the theory i was told that this is the fastest way to get acurate rounds on target in a damaging area. the weight of the body rest on this point. if your lucky enough to damage the bone structure the body will begin to fall and bad guys don't shoot well when falling.
after two very quick rounds to the pelvic area (basicaly the gun just continues up without stopping) you then deliver several to the chest and continue up to the head. if you feel the threat is still there.
it is a very fast fire method. i have shot this at the range and surprisingly i shot very acurate out to some long ranges.
grdpounder
New member
Let me give you the situation, he was working with someone doing a modifed "El Presidente" drill, I happened to like his targets and asked about them.
I showed him my version of the same drill with a target that was feature in a Rob Pincus (sp) video with multiple blocks outside the sillioutte and three target areas in the body and he focused on the pelvic girdle right away. I spent 25 years training to shoot COM and I understand when and where shooting lower could be to your advantage, I just wanted to see if things had changed.
I showed him my version of the same drill with a target that was feature in a Rob Pincus (sp) video with multiple blocks outside the sillioutte and three target areas in the body and he focused on the pelvic girdle right away. I spent 25 years training to shoot COM and I understand when and where shooting lower could be to your advantage, I just wanted to see if things had changed.
a small bullet precisely striking and then having enough OOMPH to crush/shatter a pelvic bone is not going to be easy to accomplish when you're sweating, have tunnel vision, shaky hands from adrenaline flush, etc...
The center of mass is the way to go. If that fails, I'd go for a headshot over pelvic.
Just my two cents.
The center of mass is the way to go. If that fails, I'd go for a headshot over pelvic.
Just my two cents.
I can't but help wonder about which unit the former "special forces soldier" was with...last time I checked the 75th Counterstrike Rangers didn't count as a military unit.
In all seriousness though, the pelvic girdle is a legit target, but for civilian self defense is sort of a target of last resort. You shoot it if you can't get rounds in to part of the body where a stop is more likely.
In all seriousness though, the pelvic girdle is a legit target, but for civilian self defense is sort of a target of last resort. You shoot it if you can't get rounds in to part of the body where a stop is more likely.
troy_mclure
New member
the pelvic girdle is a great target.
there are several very major blood vessels, large nerve clusters, large intestine, bladder.
hit any of these things and the bg is down. a femoral artery will have the bg bled out in 3mins.
put some holes in the intestine/bladder and sepsis will likely kill him even if the bullets dont.
and having a colostomy bag will keep him from too much crime.
the lapd(?) used the pelvic shot to put down the PCP guys that took bullets to the heart and kept coming
there are several very major blood vessels, large nerve clusters, large intestine, bladder.
hit any of these things and the bg is down. a femoral artery will have the bg bled out in 3mins.
put some holes in the intestine/bladder and sepsis will likely kill him even if the bullets dont.
and having a colostomy bag will keep him from too much crime.
the lapd(?) used the pelvic shot to put down the PCP guys that took bullets to the heart and kept coming
Aiming for and hitting the pelvic girdle can quickly incapacitate an opponent. Snipers and SOF are trained in several different aiming methods, typically based on their methods of operation, the opponents expected, and the weapons used. Infantry, LEO, and SD shooters will typically get good results with COM aiming, it is a large target with plenty of latitude for inaccuracy. It has a good likelihood of incapacitating the target.
Depends on what you mean by "incapacitate". Based on my personal experience with a pelvis broken in three places, there was no loss of consciousness and I was able to move myself down from a height. If these pelvic injuries had been the result of a shooting, I would still have been in the fight and returning fire - not exactly too "incapacitating" if you're expecting those pelvic shots to end the encounter.
Maximus856
New member
As an 0311(any 03xx for that matter) in the Marines, we are taught two to the chest. As a shooting coach in the marines, I teach two to the chest. I can assure you this is practiced in combat too. He's wrong in saying its out, but the pelvic region is a very good target, especially when the target fails to stop..but so is the head. Im sure our failure to stop drills are no different then everyone elses, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head/pelvic region.
-Max
-Max
BuckHammer
New member
Brent, I have a legit question for you.
Why don't you just start with the head shot? Is the head shot easier to hit after the target is momentarily stunned by two to the chest? I am not tactically trained, so someone please fill me in.
Maximus856
New member
Headshot on a moving target is hard and not worth risking the time/ammo when typically a good hammered pair or controlled pair will do the job. If a man isnt at least stunned by it, then I think you have bigger problems to worry about. But yes, usually they will be stunned for a moment. Depending on who you ask, or even the situation a failure to stop is performed in whole (2COM 1 Head/pelvis) after the first two didnt work, however others will just go straight for the head. Situation dictates my friend.
BuckHammer
New member
That's what common sense lead me to believe, but I was just making sure.
Hmmm... How long did you talk to him before he volunteered that information?
Shooting at the pelvic girdle is a tool in the arsenal. I'm not aware of any reputable trainer teaching that the pelvic girdle shot should be taken in preference to a COM shot, just that it's an option that one should be aware of.
As pointed out, removing the mobility of an opponent armed with a firearm will not stop him from firing back, but it could be a useful option when engaging a determined attacker with a contact weapon (e.g. knife/club/etc.)