Colt quality...

I prefer the series 70 guns as well ....( companies like Wilson Combat make a lot of series 70's guns still ).....and looking at the online catalog, Colt has at least one decent looking model in series 70, a Colt Gold cup match...

Its my opinion that the series 80 issue...fixed a non-existent problem / I carry a Wilson CQB 5" gun ( series 70 ) all the time../ and I have another Wilson series 70 gun ( 5" Protector ) in 9mm that I've had for about 9 yrs now ...with a little over 82,000 rds thru it ...and while I have not dropped them / I don't look it as a serious issue.

I also think the new Colts are pretty good looking guns in terms of fit and finish / I've taken a couple of them apart --- and they were way better than anything Colt was putting out in the 80's and 90's...in my opinion. I also think they're priced right ...and have dry fired a number of them in shops - and the triggers are at least acceptable...where a lot of the entry level 1911's lately ( like Springfield range officers - have had horrible triggers in them ).
 
From Dahermit:

Quote:
Cannot testify to current product, but about five years or so ago I bought a new Colt Combat Commander in staineless steel and was disappointed to say the least.
1. Checkering on the grips was the worst I have ever seen on a gun...many run-overs.
2. The gun would not function reliably, discovered that the recoil spring was so under-powered it would not reliably bring the gun back to battery when cycling it by hand.
3. The firing pin spring was so under-powered the firing pin retainer would slip down and tie the gun up when firing.
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Are you sure it was a Combat Commander? This is the steel framed version of the Commander. The reason I ask is because the Combat Commander was not offered from Colt with checkered forestrap. It may have had that if a Talo Colt or offered from a distributor. Do you have a pic of the gun?
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It was an all-steel XSE Combat Commander. It did not have a checkered forestrap nor did I say it did.
EXS45smaller.jpg

I do not remember if it had an ambi safety or if I put one on...in any event, it wears the traditional single safety now.
Did you notice the checkering was off before you took possession of the gun?
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Did not notice until I got it home.
Coltgrip2large.jpg

Although it cannot be considered a "fault", I discovered that the mainspring housing was stainless steel colored plastic. I replaced it with a steel one and still have the original which I will send to anyone who pre-pays for the postage plus 50 cents...what it is worth. I bought the Colt thinking I was getting an all-steel pistol.
Nevertheless, the trigger pull was excellent and the sights are very good.
Now that I have replaced the recoil spring, trigger spring and main spring housing, the gun is great...but it did not come that way from Colt.
I keep the unsightly grips on the gun just to show people how bad they are.
 
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Don't avoid the Series 80 firing pin safety. It serves a purpose.
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As I understand it, the tests of the original design determined that the gun had to be dropped from a height of ten feet on concrete, directly vertical on the muzzle. That begs the question: In what likely scenario does a Colt get dropped on the muzzle from a height of ten feet? Even a man on horse back is not that high and how would a horseman get the gun to drop exactly vertical? It must be to protect 1911 carrying window washers who goof-off by dropping their guns on the muzzle to see if they can get them to fire?
 
Why is it important that the mainspring housing be metal?
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It's not important.

But I will say you can feel a difference when firing - you can feel the "spring" of the mainspring through the polymer more than you can through the steel.

For that reason, I replaced the polymer mainspring housing of my XSE with the steel housing of the Gold Cup. The part runs about $35, matches the finish perfectly, and drops right in.
 
Mainspring housings don't have to be metal...( as long as they hold the mainspring - and do their job )....but if they are plastic, to me its an indication or a cheaper product / and esthetically how it feels and looks.

I don't know of a high end 1911...even semi-custom ...from companies like Wilson Combat or Ed Brown as an example ...that are built with plastic mainspring housings.

I prefer the housing to be metal...

( its kind of like MIM parts in 1911's ...vs machined ...I prefer not to have MIM parts in my guns )....but there is a cost associated with both.
 
Why is it important that the mainspring housing be metal?
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For function there is no reason it should be metal. However, most people who buy a "Colt", expect that it will be a quality (who considers plastic to be an example of quality), item. After all Colt's generally cost more than the other production guns. "This gun has a high-quality plastic main spring housing!"---said Colt never, in their advertising. If you think it is a quality item (the main spring housing), send me a privet email and we will exchange information so you can buy it for the fifty cents price I offered.
 
Did you notice the checkering was off before you took possession of the gun?
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Why? If I had, and not bought the gun, would that have made it o.k. that they sent out a gun with such bad workmanship? Is it unreasonable to expect an experienced worker to just look at the grips and toss them into a scrap box and put on some good ones? That is pretty much a standard practice in all manufacturing industries that I have ever been associated with.
 
Colt

1911Tuner: The 1911s using the John Browning bbl. moving link locking system,the fitting of bbl. to slide lugs is very important to the proper operation of the handgun
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The locking system is the Colt-Browning tilting barrel short recoil operation, prevalent in several modern designs...including the Glock and the Sig.

The link's only function is getting the barrel out of the slide. It has nothing to do with locking.

I had one of the Colts with the slide lugs machined off center. It was a Combat Commander, and it functioned fine. It probably would've beat the barrel lugs to gobbets within a couple thousand rounds...but it ran with the best of'em.
 
BigJimP:
What today is the problem with MIM parts? Many knives today use powder metal in their blades,also you find MIM parts is many other products.

The reason Wilson Brown and other custom 1911 builders use and replace MIM with bar stock, is a marketing ploy and also for them to charge more for their products.

All Alloy metal at some time is being melted from Ore Scrap or powdered metals.

At one time the bar stock was plain melted metals.

Saying we use forged bar stock in our handguns is a crock.

I would also like some of the custom builders to show me proof, that a forged item is in their handguns as some try tell people their handguns have these forged hammers and sears slides and frames.
 
On the question that was raised earlier on how we know Colt quality has been improving:

The reports from the American Rifleman and a variety of gun magazines that report on such and have made factory tours over the last 5 or so years generally support this. Meaning that Colt has been making significant efforts to improve quality

About 5 or so years ago Colt assigned one of it's employees to play an active roll in the Colt section of the 1911 forum. This is Brent. He has worked closely with folks on the forum there is dealing with issues that have arisen over the years regarding quality and relayed these to Colt. He has answered questions and dealt directly with customer issues. This has resulted in an increased attention to the quality of the work coming out of the plant and has had an impact on folks at the Colt section of the 1911 forum. It has resulted in increased confidence in quality at Colt's. Feedback from the foums has also impacted the guns that Colt offers. The Wiley Clapp gun is an example.

Reports come in to various forums, particularly the Colt section of gun forums on the improved quality of Colt guns. Both on the reliability of the guns and of their customer service.

These indicators and others show that the quality of their offerings has actually improved over the last several years.

Which is kinda interesting given the general state of incompetence and greed of their top management. The mid level managers and rank and file employees seem to have been fighting to make a better product.

tipoc
 
MIM parts can be made well....but often they are made cheaply / I don't think its a marketing ploy at all from companies like Wilson Combat...I think their guns are significantly better made, better fit, have better and stronger components..than especially companies like Colt, Springfield, etc...

But its your money ...spend it where you want. If MIM doesn't bother you ...then hopefully it will be fine.

And only as one example...but in the last 6 months, just in 1911's at my local range...I've seen 3 guns with cracks in Firing Pin blocks..( they were MIM - one Kimber, two Springfields ) / and while the parts are not that expensive to replace, personally, I find MIM parts aggravating.

But I still think Colt is making a solid gun for the money / its just not a high end 1911 ( personally I think #1 is Wilson / # 2 is Ed Brown...and probably Les Baer in a distant 3rd...and then its a mix from 4 - 10...) but that's my list....but the colt is not a $3,000 - $ 4,500 gun either...( like Wilson and Ed Brown ).
 
I don't know of a high end 1911...even semi-custom ...from companies like Wilson Combat or Ed Brown as an example ...that are built with plastic mainspring housings.
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Kimber puts the same $5 mainspring housing on their $1500+ "custom shop" guns.
But not sure why you are comparing high end, semi-custom guns that cost $2000 or even $4000 to production guns that cost half that?
Colt's high(er) end guns do have metal mainspring housings.
 
MIM

The problem with MIM isn't MIM. With good materials and adherence to quality control throughout the process, good MIM is quite good. In some instances, it's even superior to barstock in wear characteristics.

In the early days, MIM had some growing pains. The issues seem to have been worked out.

I swapped out an MIM sear and disconnect in a friend's Colt a few years back. He insisted on it, despite my telling him that he was wasting his money. Somebody on the internet...and you know the rest.

So, I arranged a little scientific demonstration for him.

I laid the sear on an anvil...cupped side down...and whacked it a few times with a 4-ounce hammer. Not only did it not shatter, when I installed it into a gun, it functioned just fine...albeit with a little rougher trigger action than I like.

Then, I clamped the disconnect in a vise and whacked it a couple times. It bent about 30 degrees before it broke.

I have a pair of early "Billboard" 1991A1s that I bought strictly for beater duty. They're collectively approaching 400,000 rounds, about evenly split.

One is operating on the original sear and disconnect. The other, with the original sear. I replaced the disconnect at around 75,000 rounds...not because it was causing problems...but because it was lookin' a little worn, and I wanted to nip any possible future issues in the bud.

I had to replace the plunger tube on one about 50,000 rounds into it. Other than the springs, triggers, and barrels...all other parts are OEM, including the plastic mainspring housings.

If every MIM part in the pistols were to disintegrate tomorrow, I really couldn't complain.
 
tipoc:
I think people in Hartford Ct. at Colt want to keep working and getting a pay check,so even if the top people at Colt are worthless and moving the company to being sold or closed,they do what ever they can to make the handguns worth buying.

In the past I have also worked for companies with worthless people at the top,also managers that knew nothing about our products or how they should be made.

I wanted to keep working and getting a pay check,so I did what ever it took to see we stayed in business.
 
Why? If I had, and not bought the gun, would that have made it o.k. that they sent out a gun with such bad workmanship? Is it unreasonable to expect an experienced worker to just look at the grips and toss them into a scrap box and put on some good ones? That is pretty much a standard practice in all manufacturing industries that I have ever been associated with.
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When I read the complaint about this I assumed you meant that there was checkering on the grip of the gun that was fouled up. I did not think you meant the checkered stocks.

Colt does not do those stocks itself (as decades back they used to) they come from a vendor for the last several decades. Likely some one just missed that when they were putting them on the gun. You could have returned those to Colt and they would have sent you another set and paid for the mailing back and forth.

I likely wouldn't have noticed those stocks as 1911 grips are easily replaced and easily bought and I would have considered it a minor thing if I had noticed it at all.

Colt has used plastic msh on many of it's guns for...maybe 20 years now. It kept costs down. Pachmeyr and others have sold them commercially for a few decades as a way of keeping the weight down on carry guns. Colt though used them to reduce costs. Kimber has done the same for awhile now.

Colt also used plastic triggers but has moved away from that on their 1911s after folks complained. It may still use them on the Mustang. I'm not sure offhand.

With whole guns made of plastic these days and reliable ones at that, it should be less of an issue than it was when Colt first began the plastic msh years back. They can be swapped out for alloy or steel ones.

tipoc
 
The last time I looked, most new Colts had the plastic mainspring housing and three MIM parts, IIRC. I don't recall which parts were MIM off the top of my head but think they were parts subject to less stress. Yeah, a plastic mainspring housing is not what most of expect from Colt but it can be changed out if the buyer really doesn't want it. The issue of MIM has been beaten to death but most people would be surprised to know that the Springfield Professional from the Custom Shop has some MIM parts. I prefer not to have any but . . .

As far as the more recent improvements in Colt products are concerned, the big leap occurred as a result of new CNC machinery which Colt started transitioning to in mid-2008 or so. Compare articles from another forum from a 2007 visit when Colt had no CNC machinery in sight to a 2008 visit when Colt first started using CNC. I believe there were a few minor glitches here and there, as to be expected. For example, I recall some issues with the early re-introduced Combat Elites because some had dust covers with holes not perfectly round. In addition, I suspect there were some old-stock Colts out there for at least a couple of years.

I have a Colt from the mid-80s and two from the post-CNC machinery era. The quality is greatly improved.

IMO, Colt is one of two "best buys" for the price range of their typical production stock. The other is a Dan Wesson Heritage which is priced a little higher than most production Colts and can be found now at less than $1,100.
 
I was trying to speak to the quality of Colt overall...and relate that they are a decent entry level 1911...not a higher end gun / sorry if I got things off track comparing Colts to Wilson and Ed Brown....
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I'm sure the guys that work at Colt are doing the best they can ...but so are all they guys that work for Wilson Combat in Berryville, Arkansas ...or Ed Brown in Perry, Missouri.../ all solid American corporations...
 
I think they are better than an entry level gun. They have a solid foundation and shoot and function well and are reasonably well finished (current production models).
 
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