Colt quality...

M

marine6680

New member
A guy I work with was having reliability issues with an older Colt commander model 1911, and was unable to eject unfired rounds... Asked me to take a look at it.

After tearing it down completely, and finding rusting and dried out lube... Throwing it in a US cleaner to clean out the gunk... Removing the rust... giving everything a nice coat of oil... Polishing up the feed ramp and chamber... Tuning the extractor... And relieving the ejection port a tad... It is running well.


But I was struck by the massive amounts of tooling marks and rough machining work. The locking lugs in the slide had a bump in them where it looks like the lug was not fully cut, or the bit jumped. Either way, the machining was crude inside the pistol. I have seen war time production Mosins that looked better machined. It's bad.


I vaguely recall someone mentioning that colt went through a period of shoddy work.

Is that the case? Are current production pistols made better?
 
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I picked up a Colt 1991 Government Model in December with a manufacture date of November. The inside was free of toolmarks, the exterior finish was quite nice, and the trigger was quite good for a Series 80 gun.
 
The finish level would not be uncommon if the pistol was made before about 1998.

I toured the Colt factory in 1985. Most of the production machinery was manually operated and left over from WW II and the Korean War. The majority of the finish work was done by hand at workbenches.

Colt now uses CNC machinery in their production facilities, and the guns I've seen over the past 5 years have been nicely finished both inside and out.
 
Agree. Colt has really improved their game to today's standards. Not that long ago their 1911's always needed finishing and gunsmith work for them to be reliable and more refined. Those guns were unpredictable and rough around the edges. Their reputation greatly over shadowed their products.
Colt has pulled themself into the modern age of production the past few years and puts out a fine product.
 
Just last year I traded off a few Kimbers, with some cash to get two new in box Colts.
An XSE and 1991 both all black steel 5" .45acp. both have quality fit and finishs,no rough tooling marks,both have fired without any FTF or FTE problems,and the slides lock back after the last rounds fired.

Colt along with new CNC machines they also use some of the over 100 year old machines. They still do a lot of hand finishing and fitting of slide to frame.

Colt understand they went through a time where quality had slipped badly,and Colt is taking the needed steps to regain the high quality, we customers demand and expect.:)
 
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Is that the case? Are current production pistols made better?
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Cannot testify to current product, but about five years or so ago I bought a new Colt Combat Commander in staineless steel and was disappointed to say the least.
1. Checkering on the grips was the worst I have ever seen on a gun...many run-overs.
2. The gun would not function reliably, discovered that the recoil spring was so under-powered it would not reliably bring the gun back to battery when cycling it by hand.
3. The firing pin spring was so under-powered the firing pin retainer would slip down and tie the gun up when firing.

It was not a matter of the gun having faults, the thing that struct me was that the employee who assembled the gun was not familiar enough with how the recoil spring should have felt that they did not detect that it was under-powered. When compared to the new standard powered spring I replaced it with, the difference was remarkable. Likewise, who ever screwed the grips on had to been nearly blind to have not rejected those abominations.
Whether or not they have created a quality control department since when I got my Colt, I do not know, like I said it has been around five years since the Three Stooges assembled mine.
 
Colt understand they went through a time where quality had slipped badly,and Colt is taking the needed steps to regain the high quality, we customers demand and expect.
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And you know this, how?
 
I have considering getting a colt 1911.

For one... Colt is the original so figured that would be nice.

But the main reason... I love the look of the colt bluing. The rolled look parallel grain of the metal on the slide, with that dark blue color...

It looks awesome, and I prefer blued 1911 to stainless.

But I don't want series 80... And the colt series 70 are gi style, and I want an "enhanced" style with at least the standard improvements.

A blued slide and matte stainless frame would look good though.

So I am in a quandary on which 1911 to get.
 
Even with the XSE being sold as an up scale colt 1911, IMHO the plain Jane 1991 has as the same quality of build and quality of fit and finish,as the XSE.

And I found it had as good or even better trigger then the XSE. And the 1991 sure is a less costly item.

I just wanted to trade off my Kimbers,and my local firearm dealer had customers who wanted Kimbers. So getting both the XSE and 1991 were good deals.
Don't think today he would do the same trade.;)
 
marine6680 said:
I vaguely recall someone mentioning that colt went through a period of shoddy work.

Is that the case? Are current production pistols made better?
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A couple of decades ago, Colt was hit by a long strike, and workmanship was spotty during that period. That was a long time ago. Also, until a few years ago, most of Colt's machine work was done on good, old-fashioned milling machines and lathes. Colt has now moved almost entirely to CNC machining centers for production.

The overall consensus among 1911 aficionados is that Colt quality today is better than it ever was, and that Colt 1911s today are a bargain, generally worth a lot more than the selling price. (That's not to say you can buy one today and sell it next week for twice what you paid, but just that a $1000 Colt is probably every bit the equal of other brands selling for a lot more.)

But I don't want series 80... And the colt series 70 are gi style, and I want an "enhanced" style with at least the standard improvements.
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Don't avoid the Series 80 firing pin safety. It serves a purpose.

I was like you -- given my druthers, I would always chose a pistol without the firing pin safety over one that had it. Then I read Walt Kuleck's report on the M1911.ORG forum describing his drop tests of 1911s. He found that the possibility of having a discharge if the gun is dropped is very real -- and it doesn't have to be dropped from a great height. That made me appreciate the Series 80 firing pin safety a lot more -- to the point that today I would not want to carry a 1911 that didn't have it.

If the trigger is your worry -- forget it. Most of my Series 80 1911s (both Colt and Para-Ordnance) needed very little tuning to get the triggers to a clean 4-1/2 to 4-3/4 pounds. That's what I consider the minimum for a carry pistol -- I could easily get them lower without having to remove the Series 80 parts.
 
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I would just advise anyone in the market for a new 1911,to go the a firearm store and compare the Colts to the other brands.

There the ones who are going to be doing the buying,so they should look closely at all the details of these 1911s. Take off their slides remove the bbl. and look at the machine work.

Try their triggers see how slide and frame are fitted.

Then decide what 1911 you feel, is the best at the price you want to spend.:)
 
The fit & finish of my 2012-production Government XSE is very good, with no visible tooling marks on the exterior or in the slide. There are some marks from hand-fitting around the barrel hood and locking lugs.

I would rate the fit & finish to be above most other mass-produced 1911s I've handled or shot recently, such as those from Ruger, SIG, S&W (non-E-series guns, anyway), and Springfield. My buddy has a Springfield Range Officer. It's downright crude compared to the Colt.
 
Fishbed77: I did my trading for the two new Colts in 01/2012, so it looks like we both are finding the same quality from our 1911s.
Glad you posted your comments.
 
It's possible to get a good Colt, and a bad Colt, from just about any time period since WWII.
Colt seems to have one foot in the financial grave, almost constantly.
I have an early '80 Commander that shows nary a toolmark anywhere, but an '80s Gold Cup slide looked as if the slide bore had been gnawed out by beaver.
A buddy of mine took a factory tour a couple of years ago, and saw a lot of old machinery pushed into a corner to make room for new CNC machines.
New Colts appear to be consistently better than the last 30 years. The old equipment allowed the making of excellent guns when the people running the equipment were competent and caring, which was not always the case.

I have considering getting a colt 1911.

For one... Colt is the original so figured that would be nice.

But the main reason... I love the look of the colt bluing. The rolled look parallel grain of the metal on the slide, with that dark blue color...

It looks awesome, and I prefer blued 1911 to stainless.

But I don't want series 80... And the colt series 70 are gi style, and I want an "enhanced" style with at least the standard improvements.

A blued slide and matte stainless frame would look good though.

So I am in a quandary on which 1911 to get.
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You've almost perfectly described the Colt Combat Elite, if you can just get past your Series 80 prejudice. :)
 
From Dahermit:

Cannot testify to current product, but about five years or so ago I bought a new Colt Combat Commander in staineless steel and was disappointed to say the least.
1. Checkering on the grips was the worst I have ever seen on a gun...many run-overs.
2. The gun would not function reliably, discovered that the recoil spring was so under-powered it would not reliably bring the gun back to battery when cycling it by hand.
3. The firing pin spring was so under-powered the firing pin retainer would slip down and tie the gun up when firing.
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Are you sure it was a Combat Commander? This is the steel framed version of the Commander. The reason I ask is because the Combat Commander was not offered from Colt with checkered forestrap. It may have had that if a Talo Colt or offered from a distributor. Do you have a pic of the gun?

Did you notice the checkering was off before you took possession of the gun?

tipoc
 
Have owned two Colt Commanders from the early/ mid seventies and one from the 90s
Fantastic inside and out.
 
Colt

In the mid-70s, Colt was having a lot of labor and financial problems. They were losing many of their best smiths and machinists, and replacing them with relatively inexperienced people. Quality during this time was spotty, and you could literally buy two pistols with consecutive serial numbers where one would be excellent and the other one wouldn't be worth bringing home.

I've actually seen slide lugs noticeably machined off-center and deep toolmarks in feed ramps and other areas.
 
As far as series 80... I can tell the difference in feel... Pull weight isn't really an issue with either.


I know that several brands use light firing pins and heavier firing pin springs to increase drop safety for series 70 actions. They apparently pass standard drop testing. They may not be as drop safe as an 80, but good enough for the likely scenarios.

Also this would not be a carry gun, so I am less worried about dropping it or other carry concerns.
 
1911Tuner: The 1911s using the John Browning bbl. moving link locking system,the fitting of bbl. to slide lugs is very important to the proper operation of the handgun. And as you have noted some times is not done correctly.

I find the newer handguns like for example the HKs Walthers Glock and Sig Sauer,that use the slide breach block to bbl. require no fitting. Being machined using CNC machines,if the parts are within the handguns Design tolerances they will work correctly.

I have two fairly new Walthers two new P model Sigs and a new HK. All have worked 100% right out of their box's. so the CNC machines are paying off,with the less humans have to fit parts the better off the handgun will work.

I know others won't fully agree with this,but it's my findings.:rolleyes:
 
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