Colt police positive, puzzling

I agree. I think the first order is to make the bullet fit the throat. In my case, 0.361" is pointless. I only have 0.358" solid base wad cutter at moment. I think it will work fine. I'm actually quite interested in trying 0.356" for 9mm.

-TL
 
I'm actually quite interested in trying 0.356" for 9mm.
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Just make sure that you have sufficient neck tension to hold the bullets...

This is why when I load .358" bullets for my gun that I use .357/.38spcl dies...

The .38 S&W dies I used to have were 'too loose'...

I have even heard of people using Makarov dies for .38 S&W...
 
Salmoneye said:
Just make sure that you have sufficient neck tension to hold the bullets...

This is why when I load .358" bullets for my gun that I use .357/.38spcl dies...

The .38 S&W dies I used to have were 'too loose'...

I have even heard of people using Makarov dies for .38 S&W...
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Good point. The Lee die I have seems pretty tight. There is actually a slight bulge when 0.361" bullet is seated. The grip is still good on 0.358".

Hmm.. Here it goes again. Lee probably didn't take 0.361" serious either. They may have sized their die for smaller bullets.

-TL
 
they designed a new cartridge with an inside lubricated bullet of .357" diameter and made ammunition of that dimension at Frankford Arsenal for issue for over 17 years.
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As a very amateur cartridge collector, I wonder if this Gov .38 caliber round had a unique name. After all, Gov .45 revolver rounds were .45 Government and then M1909.

Bart Noir
 
I own a Hopkins and Allen police safety. It is not marked for the caliber. When I bought it , I got it for a very low price because they knew it was 38 caliber, but a 38 special was to big. I bought the gun and at another shop I bought a box of Smith & Wesson 38 S&W cartridges they fit in the chambers but they were. Very tight. Later on I picked up 2 boxes of 38 short in Reminton brand and on another occasion I bought a box of Peters in 38 Colt New Police.
As I compare these cartridges I see the following;
The 38 S&W fits, but unfired cartridges will not eject when the gun opens. Each cartridge must be pushed out of the chamber with a dowel rod. The case for the 38 S&W is longer than the short or new police.

The 38 New Police fits the like one would expect it to. The case of the New Police is a little over an 1/8 inch longer than the 38 Short case and about 1/8 of an inch shorter than the 38 S&W case.

The 38 Short fits the chamber like you would expect it to also. The case for the 3/8 short is 1/8 th of an Inch shorter than the New Police and a 1/4 inch shorter than the 3/8 S&W.

I have shot both the Colt New Police and the 3/8 short with good results. I have not fired the 3/8 S&W in the revolver because it don't fit correctly. In comparing these 3 cartridges, they are 3 definently different cartridges. I also am not claiming that I am an expert regarding these cartridges. Nor have I tried reloading any yet. And that is a result of not having any info on them. Info on them seems to be scarce at the best of it. So I am passing on what little I know. If any of you could explain to me about heeled bullets and such, I would appreciate it.
 
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The .38 Colt New Police is the .38 S&W; the only difference was a slight variation in the shape (not in the diameter) of the bullet. There is no "short" or "long". Any difference in case diameter would only be a matter of tolerance.

There is a .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt. Those rounds have the same case diameter as the .38 Special. Early cartridges used a heel type bullet, but the inside lubricated .38 Long Colt made by and for the military used a .357" lead bullet.

The ammunition made by Frankford Arsenal was headstamped F A and the month and year, as "F A" on top and "10 05" on the bottom. Contract ammo was marked with the initials of the contractor (e.g., W.R.A. CO., P.C. CO.) and the month and year. There was no cartridge name given.

Boxes of F A ammunition are marked ".38 BALL REVOLVER CARTRIDGES for COLT'S DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVER".

In 1917, due to the shortage of .45 pistols, .38 revolvers were again issued, but only to National Guard units in the States and to rear areas overseas. Contracts were let to Winchester for 1,030,000 rounds and Remington for 8,950,000 rounds. The Winchester contract was later cancelled, but the Remington one was completed.

(The Hopkins and Allen Safety Police was made for .38 S&W/.38 Colt NP, not the .38 Short Colt.)

Jim
 
Lucas McCain said:
I own a Hopkins and Allen police safety. It is not marked for the caliber. When I bought it , I got it for a very low price because they knew it was 38 caliber, but a 38 special was to big. I bought the gun and at another shop I bought a box of Smith & Wesson 38 S&W cartridges they fit in the chambers but they were. Very tight. Later on I picked up 2 boxes of 38 short in Reminton brand and on another occasion I bought a box of Peters in 38 Colt New Police.
As I compare these cartridges I see the following;
The 38 S&W fits, but unfired cartridges will not eject when the gun opens. Each cartridge must be pushed out of the chamber with a dowel rod. The case for the 38 S&W is longer than the short or new police.

The 38 New Police fits the like one would expect it to. The case of the New Police is a little over an 1/8 inch longer than the 38 Short case and about 1/8 of an inch shorter than the 38 S&W case.

The 38 Short fits the chamber like you would expect it to also. The case for the 3/8 short is 1/8 th of an Inch shorter than the New Police and a 1/4 inch shorter than the 3/8 S&W.

I have shot both the Colt New Police and the 3/8 short with good results. I have not fired the 3/8 S&W in the revolver because it don't fit correctly. In comparing these 3 cartridges, they are 3 definently different cartridges. I also am not claiming that I am an expert regarding these cartridges. Nor have I tried reloading any yet. And that is a result of not having any info on them. Info on them seems to be scarce at the best of it. So I am passing on what little I know. If any of you could explain to me about heeled bullets and such, I would appreciate it.
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Among those 3 cartridges you have, 38 s&w and 38 new police are supposed to be the same, and 38 short colt is different. But in reality there are a lot of hand wavings. Now they are the same, now they are not.

It doesn't matter really. They hardly make them anymore. I just hand load to make my revolver shoot the best.

A heeled bullet has a head bigger than its shank. The smaller shank fits inside the brass. Its bigger head hangs outside the brass and has the same diameter as the brass. They mostly don't do this anymore. 22LR is probably the only commercially available cartridge that still uses heeled bullet. They are still available for hand loading obsolete calibers though.

-TL
 
Factory loads in .38 Colt New Police and .38 Short Colt are in the collector category. .38 Long Colt is still made from time to time, but is very hard to find. Handloaders usually trim down .38 Special to make the .38 Colt cases.

Jim
 
I'm not 100% positive, but I think that the .38 Short Colt was one of the cartridges that fell off production lists in the ramp up for production in World War I, and after the war it wasn't brought back.
 
The .38 Long Colt was quite popular for a good while with female police officers. They could carry the standard .38 Special revolver but could carry and qualify with a round having less recoil.

Jim
 
The 38 short ammo that I have was a special run that Rem did about 15-20 years ago. The box has the Zip code on it.
I would imagine at present time with the "Panic" happening that special runs of any kind for the obsolete cartridges is gone forever.
 
Good lord... I had no idea that Remington still occasionally made runs of the .38 Short Colt...

Googled it and found a bunch of pictures of newish boxes of Remington ammo...
 
Right up to the "great ammo shortage", Remington would run off a batch of .38 Long Colt, and even .38 Short Colt from time to time. There was a small but steady demand.

Jim
 
Some six years ago or thereabouts, when I was looking all over town for 9MM, I saw a coupled of boxes of .38 Short on the shelf. The dealer said he still got some calls for it. An elderly lady...

Good lord is right on point, Mike. I think I said the same thing.
 
Some update. Made a few loads with 0.358" hi-tek coated wc cast bullets. They worked pretty well. No problem loading into chambers. I'm getting 3" groups at 15 yards, off hand single handed double action. It is basically 0.38 short colt I am shooting.

Will shoot more shots to confirm next time. Thanks again for your inputs.

-TL
 
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