Colt Navy woes

The wedge is right it just looked funny in the pic. It's in too far tho, you don't have enough gap between the barrel and cylinder. Might just need a new wedge.
 
One More Thing...

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Check Revolver(s) for chamber to barrel alignment, with a light to side or rear of rev place on full cock and see if cone flash hole is dead center to barrel/chamber. If it isn't chamber will show a sliver or quarter moon of the cylinder chamber over lapping the barrel. Viewed from barrel end. Called misalignment a factory defect.

SG
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Oquirrh, did you note the above quote?
What were your findings?
And screw filler press that ball down on the powder and shoot.

SG
 
Can i read the Cowboy Chron online? I'd love to read those articles.
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You need to be a SASS member to get it - or find one near you and borrow theirs. To find a club near you, go to www.sassnet.com then click on Affiliated Clubs; then click on your state to find the clubs in your state. There will be contact information for that club. I'm sure there will be someone that will pass their Chronicle along to you.
 
Another day of shooting...

'51 Navy was frustrating again. I'm going to replace nipples and the wedge and start all over with this wheel-gun.

Question: The arbor is bottomed out in its shaft in the barrel, leaving a tight but not too tight barrel gap. Does that sound right? As I said before the wedge is barely finger tight now.

On the other hand the Rem. New Army .44 was right on target and hummin' 'em into a three inch circle at 50'. I think if the '58 had a better sight picture it would rival my Ruger OA.

I'm still waiting for parts for my Uberti Pocket Navy.
 
Wedge was too tight/in too far to start with Oquirrh

Question: The arbor is bottomed out in its shaft in the barrel, leaving a tight but not too tight barrel gap. Does that sound right? As I said before the wedge is barely finger tight now.
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Oquirrh
A wedge sould be pushed in by hand, not tapped in or hammered in till the spring end clears the frame on the otherside. If new they are usually flush to the other side...not pushed thru.
you used corn meal to raise the ball, don't it ain't a cartridge gun. Corn meal is cereal and it helps bind up your Rev quicker. Use lube pills they work best...I hate Crisco and won't use it but I'd say use it till you find Lube pills. Ask me and will let you know where.
Cly being too tight, w/wedge in too far, no lube , and cornmeal..why would that poor Colt work right?

You probly won't anwer this posting as you haven't replied to any other Posts I hsve taken the timne to try ahd help you with.


And if your name is Larry, then I consider the source...and your welcome.


SG
 
A lot of people use corn meal for a filler with light loads. BP must have the ball seated tight enough against the powder so that there's no air gap. Lube is a must, either lube pills, lubed wads or overball lube. Cylinder gap should be 0.005-0.010.
 
Smokin gun,

Thanks, I appreciate any and all help. (Name's not Larry.)

I was advised to use corn meal, as Hawg points out, to get adequate compression with light loads. I've been shooting 15g to 20 g of Kik trying to get some consistent groups.

The wedge is all the way through and still very loose--which probably explains the accuracy problem The barrle is moving around.

I compared it to my nearly new Pocket Navy and it looks like the wedge is the culprit. The big navy's wedge is seriously curved on the front edge from wear and maybe polishing. Any recoil would lossen it.

Hawg, I stuck a piece of xerox paper in the gap. It slides in and when I cock the hammer, the cylinder grips the paper, but it will come out with a little tug.

I'll figure it out, but thanks for the information. i may have find a 51 Navy guy around here to consult. (Better yet, buy another '51 to compare-- :-)

Again thanks, everyone--I hope I haven't come across as ungrateful or a bother. I'll try not to bug y'all unless I'm absolutely baffled.
 
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The wedge is all the way through and still very loose--which probably explains the accuracy problem The barrle is moving around.
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Oquirrh, get a beer can or coke can and cut a shim(to height of wedge) so as it wraps around the corners of the wedge put it on the froward side of wedge and slide it in.
Mines made of brass shim stock on mt 10yr old 1860 Pietta. Wedge sits flush on right side. Also have a coke can shim on top of arbor to barrel ...took wobble out, several shim in cavity to bottm barrel, arbors dont all go to the bottom of the barrel assy hole.

Sorry I thought you might be Larry. Long story...

SG
 
Good point about the arbor being too short. Try this. Take the barrel off and remove the cylinder. Put the barrel on at about 90 degress to the frame. Push the barrel all the way down then rotate it to the frame. The barrel should fit flush with the frame or close to it. If the barrel goes past the edge of the frame when you put in the wedge it tilts the top of the barrel inward. You can drill and tap a hole in the front of the arbor and put a set screw in it. Adjust it until the barrel just mates with the frame and loctite it in place. Now when you put in the wedge, the barrel can't tip back. Make sure the set screw does not extend into the wedge slot. It's easier than messing with all those shims. I'd get a new wedge too.
 
Wedges should wear out before the frame does - that's a good thing. You can stretch a frame by driving the wedge in too far, or peen the metal around the exit slot on the right side of the frame. I use wedges in several guns -its quick and easy. I used a small piece of wood recently while at the range when my 1851 .36 worked loose. You can buy a new wedge but the problem will most likely happen again.
The screw on the left side of the frame is actually (according to an old Colt patent) a set screw to regulate how far in the wedge goes.
 
A wedge sould be pushed in by hand, not tapped in or hammered in till the spring end clears the frame on the otherside. If new they are usually flush to the other side...not pushed thru.
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Sorry, but I don't agree. The location of the wedge with respect to the barrel assembly is not a precisely controlled dimension. A better indicator of whether the barrel is properly installed on a Colt revolver is the cylinder end gap.

A set of automotive feeler gauges is available at any auto parts store and is not expensive. Install the barrel and wedge and check the end gap (the cap between the front of the cylinder and the barrel forcing cone) with the hammer at full cock. It should be between 0.002 and 0.006 inches.

Tapping the wedge further into the slot (with any tool you feel comfortable with respecting the finish on the gun) will reduce the gap. Once that's determined note the location of the wedge; you can usually get close to the correct end gap by repeating that location, but it needs to be checked occasionally as the wedge/base pin slot wears.

If the wedge is loose once the proper end gap has been obtained the wedge must be replaced. It will not maintain the end gap during shooting if it's loose. If the new wedge is also loose then the slot is stretched and the base pin should be replaced (a job for a gunsmith).

Hawg's suggestion about a set screw is a darn good one. I've never seen that done and it sounds interesting. I'd try that before replacing the base pin.
 
Mykeal, I agree that the closer the gap is the more accuracy you get but doncha think 0.002 is a lil close for a bp revolver? Factory tolerance on the wide end is 0.012, not sure what it is on the narrow end but I'm sure it's closer to 0.005 than 0.002
 
Thanks, thanks and thanks...

Now I've got some things to try.

Hawg, I did the 90 degree test and it's seems flush -- but the set screw idea is genius.

Smokin' I was pondering the shim idea, too--at least as a temp. fix until a wedge arrives. (The parts place in Conn. takes forever to ship.) I could even trim a piece of feeler gauge.

In the midst of fiddling--For the hell of it, I flipped the wedge upside-down and pushed it in. I fits tight! When I get a second -- a tree fell onto my shed, putting a moratorium on shootin'-fiddlin' for the weekend -- I'll check with the feeler gauges (thanks mykeal). And upload some fotos.

Fiddlin' with these revolvers is fully half the fun. Think I'll get another.

I have a hand/spring assembly coming for my Uberti Pocket Navy (some day) and I may be checking back for guidance on fitting it.
 
Smokin' I was pondering the shim idea, too--at least as a temp. fix until a wedge arrives. (The parts place in Conn. takes forever to ship.) I could even trim a piece of feeler gauge.
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Feeler gauge stock works great...I even make hand springs with feeler gauge stock.

Sorry, but I don't agree. The location of the wedge with respect to the barrel assembly is not a precisely controlled dimension. A better indicator of whether the barrel is properly installed on a Colt revolver is the cylinder end gap.
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You can not agree all you want, but you are just contradicting yourself in doing so.
Your dimensional statement equates the shim that I mentioned on the wedge that is tryin to be temporarily repaired, and not to have happen again with a new wedge. Most companies like Cabelas are shipped with with a wedge so tight one has the smack it out. This one was probly at the same adjustment ... TOO TIGHT... ie your gap referance. Most new or used without damaged wedges or barrel assy's are set with wedge flush or a little more to the right side of th frame .004"-.008"...
Most shooters do not carry feeler gauges or calipers with them. So Flush will put you about .005" to .010" or without bind on the cylinder the barrel.
Follow me?

SH
 
Hawg, I did the 90 degree test and it's seems flush -- but the set screw idea is genius.
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I wish I could take credit for it but it's just one of those things you pick up here and there.
My 60 Colt came with the wedge flush and had to be driven out the first few times. It's finger removable now but stays in place during use. Gap is 0.004.
Gap on my Pietta 58 is 0.008. Gap on my Rigarmi 58 is 0.005.
 
Nope, sorry, I don't follow. This sentence confuses me - I don't understand what you're trying to say:
Your dimensional statement equates the shim that I mentioned on the wedge that is tryin to be temporarily repaired, and not to have happen again with a new wedge.
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Colt's drawings do not specify a location for the wedge. As Hawg mentions, however, the cylinder end gap is specified, so that's the critical dimension, not the wedge location. It is true that the wedge determines cylinder end gap, but both wedge and arbor slot wear make it impossible to say what the wedge location must be to obtain any given end gap value.

I will agree that, in most cases (not always), setting the end of the wedge flush with the side of the barrel assembly will provide an end gap within acceptable tolerances. But we have a guy trying to figure out what's wrong with his gun, not what works 'in most cases'. He may have any number of problems, and I believe that in such a case it's important to start by measuring the critical dimensions so that he can begin the process of trouble shooting the problem.


And Hawg, you are correct about the max end gap tolerance. However, I don't like to let it get that wide. .010 is maybe ok, but I'd rather see .006 or even .008. As for the minimum tolerance, I see nothing wrong with .002, other than the possibility of fouling closing that up and causing interference. I think it's acceptable but not optimum. For the purposes of troubleshooting the OP's problem, I think it's ok.
 
I don't think there's a "set" location for any wedge. I think most new guns have the wedge flush but constant removal wears them down and the more a gun is disassembled the further in a wedge will go to keep the barrel tight and the gap in tolerance.
 
Progress...

I got the feeler gauges and with the wedge in upside-down, I get .004 with the hammer cocked back. Absolutely no binding anywhere between barrel and cylinder.

I'm going to make a couple shims for the wedge and put it back in rightside up.

If everything's hunky-dory, I might take it to the range tomorrow to see if it will group.

I've been firing a 17g fffg Kik test load (with some corn meal spacer and beeswax/crisco lube) but this '51 Navy fouls so fast I might load up 13=15g of Triple 7 because it shoots cleaner.

thanks all.
 
It shouldn't start to bind until after at least three full cylinders. Is there any special reason you're using such light loads?
 
It shouldn't start to bind until after at least three full cylinders. Is there any special reason you're using such light loads?
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It shouldn't bind even then. What are you lubing the arbor with? I use bore butter and get between 6 and 10 stages before the cylinder starts to bind.
 
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