Colt Hammerless (1908 model) as a house gun?

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Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
My mother is most comfortable with a small caliber autoloader (Browning Buckmark, currently). I am thinking of getting a Colt Pocket Hammerless in .32acp on the theory that 70 grains at 1000fps (4" barrel) beat 40 grains at 1100fps. Kick and grip size ought not be objectionable, operation is similar enough (I think Browning designed both). The gun would be kept in a lock-box with safety off and a round in the chamber.

I am bothered by several apects though:
-tiny sights: can a red dot sight be added or at least high visibility fron sight?
-no drop-safe: do better models with similar handling exist?
-newest examples are over fifty years old: can a gunsmith find replacement parts for an overhaul?

-are any newer models in that caliber better? If locked breech is an option, .380 is a possibility but I can't think of any thin single-stack guns with crisp single-action triggers, no external hammer and 3 or 4" barrel in .380 Ideas?

PS: Revolvers or shoulder arms are not a possibility, nor is anything with heavy recoil or much muzzle flash or a heavy slide spring...or complex manual of amrs. I.e. no TT33 or .32 1911 clones or Kel-tec P11 with loooong trigger pull.

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
I don't think I would want to stake my life on a pistol that is considered to be an antique. Enjoy them for their history an clean lines, but I'd look to something more modern for self defense. If it's a light weight, low recoil, pistol with a good trigger pull your after you might like to look at one of the Walther PPK's in 32 acp. I wouldn't consider this to be a powerhouse, though you can launch a 40 grain MagSafe bullet at close to 1400 fps from them. It has low recoil and once it slips into SA mode, it has a very crisp, clean, trigger pull. It does have an external hammer, but why does that matter? I could think of a lot better guns for home defense, including a good shotgun, but this probably comes the closest to answering your somewhat restraining limitations. Actually, I would probably feel equally well defended with a Ruger Mark I loaded with Stingers.
 
My girlfriend's PPKs is harder to rack (in case of a malfunction) and harder to fire accurately than a Colt Hammerless. I suppose a PP might actually make more sense in such a circumstance...but I have also been unconvinced that blowback Walthers are all that reliable (I have only used two Colts and both worked 100% but most PPK and PPKs guns would mis-feed occasionally).
 
At the risk of sounding like a broken record (I love my Walthers), I've never had an unreliable PP, PPK, or PPK/S -- have had two German blues and two American stainless guns, in .32 and .380.

However, racking one could be a problem -- especially making sure that it got racked all the way back.

The only problems I've had were caused by holding the trigger back after firing -- the hammer will follow the slide forward.
 
I don't know, most pistols that are good for self defense will be at least as difficult to rack as the PPK. I think you may be best served by a good 22 auto pistol. S&W 41, Ruger Mark I, etc. Any of these will provide a level of protection about as good as the 32's that your talking about when loaded with good hollowpoint ammo and kept clean. They are light, deadly accurate, and have good triggers. Being able to empty a 10 round magazine of stingers into an intruder in a few seconds is a pretty good deterrent. This wouldn't be my choice, I'll take the back door as my first choice, 12 guage second, and my Kimber Ultra Carry third.
 
I might just get her a Buckmark Micro (lighter and easier for her to balance than longer standard) with a red dot sight OR teach her point shooting (not sure she practices enough for that while a red dot at least gives her confidence in shot placement).
 
What about the small caliber Berettas with the tip up barrel? The Tomcat is a tiny DAO .32 and the Cheetah is a DA/SA .380.
64CHEETAH86.jpg
 
Blowback .380 is OUT. Too much kick. Tip-barrel is out, slide too hard to rack. Good thought though...esp. if I could find the 13rd version.
 
Hate to be the lone voice of dissent :) , but the Colt Hammerless is not a bad little handgun even by today's standards. Reasonably accurate, and very pleasant to shoot due to its all-steel construction. As with all mouseguns, it beats harsh language. If it proves reliable at the range in terms of function, I'd have no problem grabbing one as a short-range, last-ditch burglar repellent.
 
Oleg,
What about your Kel-Tec P32? If you are looking for a super small mouse gun for your mom, and you are way down in the .22 caliber range, maybe you should consider a Taurus model 941 Ultra Light ( .22 Mag. )
They have a 8 round cylinder, and a rear adj. sight. I have one in stainless. It has about 2000 rounds thru it, and has never misfired or had any problems. No slide to rack, and is a little better than a .22lr.
Price is right, and mom will get a free 1 year membership in the NRA. I bought my gun for my wife, for the same reasons you are looking for your mom. She has since moved up to a 9mm. but the little Taurus comes out of the safe every now and then. Just an option!
CJB

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" I SHOOT BACK! "
 
Folks, PLEASE listen to the parameters. My mother can't deal with revolvers, just doesn't get them. They are out. I have a P32 and it kicks and it hard to shoot accurately. It is a fine carry gun but for a beginner house gun it isn't a very good choice.

A Steyr M9 might be OK except for the recoil level. I am unimpressed with 22LR but for now it is the one gun she can use well. Just hope to fins sm-th in .32 as a step up.
 
Originally posted by Oleg Volk:
Folks, PLEASE listen to the parameters. My mother can't deal with revolvers, just doesn't get them. They are out. I have a P32 and it kicks and it hard to shoot accurately. It is a fine carry gun but for a beginner house gun it isn't a very good choice.

A Steyr M9 might be OK except for the recoil level. I am unimpressed with 22LR but for now it is the one gun she can use well. Just hope to fins sm-th in .32 as a step up.[/ I had a Taurus 22 with the tip up barrel that my wife was comfortable with because it didn't require racking the slide to fire it. The beretta tomcat works like that also so it shouldn't be hard for a lady to operate. My wife and I looked at several options when she wanted something a little bigger to plink with and carry in her vehicle and she found the glock 19 to be easy to rack the slide on and simple to shoot. I really wouldn't want her to have anything smaller than a 9mm for her protection. No matter what you decide for your mom, if she can't rack the slide back herself, she will be at a disadvantage.
Click to expand...
 
I must admit, Oleg, I can't see how your mom can be baffled by a revolver, but comprehend a semi-auto. :)

How about getting Moms a Remington 51 in .32 or .380? I've always found them to be a bit nicer than the Colts as far as handling goes.
 
Hey Oleg,

I just had this thought...

How about a Kahr K9?

The slides aren't hard to rack, recoil isn't bad due to the weight, the grips are extremely comfortable, and the round is much better any way you look at it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
I must admit, Oleg, I can't see how your mom can be baffled by a revolver, but comprehend a semi-auto. :)
[/quote]
Beats me! She's had a hard time opening the cylinder to reload and the DA trigger was too long...while SA was fine but she couldn't de-cock it consistently.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
How about getting Moms a Remington 51 in .32 or .380? I've always found them to be a bit nicer than the Colts as far as handling goes.[/quote]

Could you post a lin kto info about them...first time I hear the gun mentioned.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg Volk:
Folks, PLEASE listen to the parameters.[/quote]

Alas, as soon as I read your initial post, I knew that folks would immediately recommend something bigger.

As for the Colt M1903/1908 series, they are wonderful little handguns suitable for small hands with very mild recoil. I see them in the $250-$350 range at most gun show I attend. I would suggest you disassemble any piece you intend to buy to check for wear on the locking lugs, a good indicator of how well it's been maintained.

Don't forget that ex-German police Walther PP models are coming onto the market for as little as $289 from Burns Bros and Southern Ohio Gun. They seem to shoot a bit softer - to me at least - and she might prefer the exposed hammer.

As for ammo, the UMC gold box .32 can be had at WalMart for $8 per fifty. I use the Italian-import Fiocchi 60-gr SJHP which is quite a hot little load.

Regards to your mom,

Ken Strayhorn
Hillsborough NC
 
Oleg,

The Remington 51 is from the same time-frame, roughly, as the Colt, so there's no links that I know of for them. They haven't been made since WW II, which is a GREAT pity, for they were wonderful little guns.

They're single action, delayed blowback if I remember correctly, but even so recoil is NOT at all bad, especially in .32, due to the guns relatively large size and steel frame.

As for the Colt 1908, I'm thinking you'll find that this gun IS blowback operated. I can't remember for certain, but I think the "locking lugs" on the barrel don't keep the slide locked to the barrel during recoil; I think they're there to lock the barrel into the frame when the gun is assembled.

I may well be wrong about that, as it has been a LONG time since I have messed with one of these.
 
Oleg, one last thought on a possible handgun...

Get her a Makarov. Scout around for one with a good trigger, the East German models are the best by far in my experience. I think Burns or SOG has a bunch of them in right now.
 
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