Colt Delta Elite

And nothing you hit is going to know if the bullet is going 1200 or 1300 (especially if it's cardboard); the ballistic discussion is academic.
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Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.
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I don't know why you and others keep bringing this up--because it's simply not true.

The vast majority of commercial ammo for the 10--and what most semi-auto's have been made to handle routinely-- is loaded with significantly less velocity. The difference between a 180/200 gr bullet going 1000 or less fps and one going 1250 or better is HUGE.
 
It really is all in how you wish to look at it. To write it off as academic kind of discounts nearly EVERY discussion we have in these forums.

In reality, the difference between the silly, under loaded factory 10mm and the boutique ammo built to the end of the SAAMI range can be extremely wide. Take the long time popular 10mm round, the Federal Hydra-shock. 180gr bullet under a thousand feet per second. Meanwhile, I can send a 180 over 1,200 without even building a max load according to Hodgdon and the boutique loaders come near 1,300 without going over spec.

To say that the target getting smacked by the bullet won't ever know the difference could also discount any reason for buying 10mm in the first place.

The Delta Elite has plenty going for it. It's got history that few can claim. Major curb appeal. The cool factor is extremely high and being a 1911, it fits most people like a glove.
 
RickB said:
And nothing you hit is going to know if the bullet is going 1200 or 1300 (especially if it's cardboard); the ballistic discussion is academic.
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There's a lot of difference between 1200 ft/s and 1300 ft/s to a bad guy.
 
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1200 vs 1300 means nothing as nothing living could tell the difference. There's a thread now whether ACP +P is a significant step up over regular ACP and then here some think 100 fps is a big difference. In what world will 1200 not kill but 1300 will without question? That's not reality, that whole ~9% increase in velocity means practically nothing.

I can take a stock G20 and run a 180gr to 1325 or a stock G35 and run a 180gr to 1275 but I'm supposed to believe that extra 50-75 fps is going to make a noticeable difference? No I don't buy it.
 
And nothing you hit is going to know if the bullet is going 1200 or 1300 (especially if it's cardboard); the ballistic discussion is academic.
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Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

I don't know why you and others keep bringing this up--because it's simply not true.

The vast majority of commercial ammo for the 10--and what most semi-auto's have been made to handle routinely-- is loaded with significantly less velocity. The difference between a 180/200 gr bullet going 1000 or less fps and one going 1250 or better is HUGE.
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You take me to task while changing the subject; I didn't say there was no difference between "1000 or less" and 1250.
 
Ruger45LC said:
In what world will 1200 not kill but 1300 will without question? That's not reality, that whole ~9% increase in velocity means practically nothing.
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The increase in velocity is about 8% in that case, but the increase in energy is then about 17%. That's not huge, but it's not negligible.
 
The FBI determined that their ballistic tests were passed by a 180@950, and that's why we have the FBI-Lite 10mm loads; why deal with the recoil, muzzle blast, wear and tear, etc., of 180@1300, when a much lighter load is effective enough?
Of course, the FBI wasn't (primarily) concerned with shooting bears, but in the case of "bad guys", they thought the lighter load was plenty.
 
RickB said:
Of course, the FBI wasn't (primarily) concerned with shooting bears, but in the case of "bad guys", they thought the lighter load was plenty.
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They didn't necessarily decide that more velocity wouldn't do more damage to a bad guy, but rather that the recoil of that full-spec round was hard to shoot well for some of their agents, and also resulted in slower follow-up shots. The "more light-load shots are better than fewer heavy-load shots" philosophy has become more and more popular in the last decade or two, but some shooters (like me) prefer a smaller and slower number of more powerful shots ... that's why I carry a 10mm 1911, loaded with full-spec ammo, or sometimes an even slower and lower-capacity .44mag 5-shot revolver loaded with full-spec ammo. If I subscribed to the prevailing school of thought, I'd carry an XDM 9mm with 17 rounds, and practice lots of doubletaps and rapid fire.
 
somewhere on this forum is floating around a chart of 10mm loads from mild (i.e. 950 fps FBI load) and "wild" 1250+ fps--can't remember which thread. Even between JUST 1200 and 1300 the impact force difference is still significant (around 600 vs around 700 ftlbs)--in a good performing hunting load that difference is around 100 ftlbs in delivered energy to target in the 180-200 gr bullet size. There's more than meets the eye than just sheer numbers--it's also the inherent efficiency of the 10--how well it flies and retains that energy to distances for a hand gun caliber. Again, that's where the 10 really shines. If you're not a hunter, this will make little difference to you--but if you are a hunter the difference IS still very significant.

Furthermore, those 1200 to 1300 fps loads are exactly the kinds of loads that are "risky" for the guns that do not provide adequate case support--the ones at risk for case bulge and rupture.
 
StagPanther said:
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If you're not a hunter, this will make little difference to you--but if you are a hunter the difference IS still very significant.
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I'm not a hunter, but if I ever have to shoot a bad guy, even at a distance of only a yard or so, I'd prefer to have 700 ft-lbs instead of 600 ft-lbs. And I'd REALLY prefer to have the 1200 ft-lbs I can get with my .44mag. At that instant, if I could have a cannon, I'd take it.
 
the crux of the issue from my perspective is do you want 357 mag stopping performance out of a semi-auto? If so, then you need to go hot with a 10. But if not, then you are loading down into performance territory covered by other cheaper calibers, although there is still likely a ballistics advantage to the 10 due to sectional density etc.
 
wow!

Didn't mean to start all that ballistics businees. Simply rambling on about my 10mm and how I load it. But, if it has contributed to good discussion, all the better.
 
I dont understand how Underwood wont endorse a stock Delta when you can buy comparable and even higher power loads from other manufacturers that do endorse theirs in a Delta?

Underwood: 200g ME:694ftlbs
Doubletap: 200g ME: 750ftlbs
Buffalo Bore: 200g ME: 703ftlbs

(ive fired the Doubletap out of a stock barrel Delta just fine, no case bulge...)
 
Notice they also list the Glock 20 with that high-power 220 lead bullet on Buffalo bore's site--I certainly wouldn't take that as an endorsement to fire lead bullets through my stock 20. I may have missed it--but I don't see any language on any of those sites that specifically endorses the use in any weapon--and only in the case of Buffalo Bore does it mention that it was tested in a Delta.

Speaking of ballistics and Buffaloe Bore's site--if you look at their energy tables very closely you'll see why the 10 is so attractive to hunters--there is negligible velocity and energy loss as well as very little bullet drop out to 50 yds and still delivers the goods past that.

Since I've started firing and reloading the 10 I've learned a couple things about the cartridge. It is a cartridge unlike any other in the semi-auto world that I've loaded for--you are essentially squeezing magnum performance into that little case. Because of that, as you get into the hotter loads pressures tend to spike at a greater rate than with lighter loads. If for whatever reason that bullet does not feed into the chamber so that it's supported to the rebated rim--that's asking for trouble. My limited experience has shown so far that there is very little margin for error between loaded rounds and chamber tolerances--though the Glock stock barrel certainly has wider chamber tolerances than any of the after-market barrels I've used so far.

I measure my cases and drop test them into the chamber for every round that goes through my Glock 20. I'm going to hazard a guess that a manufacturer like Underwood puts language up that specifically advises against using their ammo in a particular weapon as a liability waiver against someone who's weapon doesn't chamber the round properly and whatever the consequences might follow.

I'm not picking on the Elite--it's a fine weapon (though a bit over-priced IMO just because it has the Colt name on it lol).
 
Not to pick on you but the 10mm is rimless. It is not a rebated rim. ;)


I've always liked the look of a DE but prefer the strength of my 10mm. It's a 6-1/2" Shilen/Match Grade Machine barrel on my Contender. There's no such thing as a quick follow up shot but I have no worries about case support or strength of the action.

:D
 
Not to pick on you but the 10mm is rimless. It is not a rebated rim.


I've always liked the look of a DE but prefer the strength of my 10mm. It's a 6-1/2" Shilen/Match Grade Machine barrel on my Contender. There's no such thing as a quick follow up shot but I have no worries about case support or strength of the action.
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All the cases I have--both reloaded and factory--have a rim diameter of .001 to .002 less than the base or web of the case--but whatever--I'll concede it's rimless : )
 
My 10mm pistols...

(All four of them + one revolver) shoot nice, spicy "full power" loads quite well. There are times when lighter loads are practical, but when I carry it "on the street" the "full-house" loads are what I count on to save my skin.

Scott
 
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