Colt D vs. S&W K

E

Echo23TC

New member
I'm sure this has been asked before, but how does Colt's Detective Special compare to a snub K frame? Mainly in terms of size, reliability, concealability. Thinking about getting one or t'other in the near future. Never had a problem with either of my S&W's (although both are bigger), but I've always wanted a Colt.



Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
 
I got a Colt detective special coming (won the auction yesterday). And I have a snub 66. I've handled det. specs before and my impression is that size would be somewhere between j-frame and k-frame. If I can remember, I'll look this thread up in about 3 weeks when I pick up the Colt and post comparison pics.

Recently, I've gotten a hankering for Colt revolvers. I have several Smith revolvers and I'm happy with them. But I find myself wanting a Diamondback (.38 spec), Anaconda (.44 or .45) and a Detective Special. I saw 2 Anacondas at the last gunshow - unfired - for about $1000. Was tempted, but not that much for those guns.
 
Colt's

I have seen decent Anacondas on the Internet for around $650 in .44 mag (.45 Colt go for a bit more). The new ones out of the Custom Shop seem to go for aboutr $950.


Tom
 
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my most common carry snubby is my smith 442, but i have an ongoing love affair with the colt D-frame.

the frame size of the colt is between the smith J-frame and K-frame, but it shares cylinder size, and speedloaders, with the K-frame. (we used to use the small colt as BUG to our duty smiths)

IMO the trigger of a stock D-frame is better than the J-frame and just a hair less than the K-frame ( longer). a properly tuned colt will definately give the larger smith a run for the money.

things i like prefer about the D-frame (over the K-frame) include:
1. more accurate barrel (1-14" twist)
2. tighter lock-up (hand raising as hammer falls)
3. stronger cylinder (locking notches between chambers)
4. longer DA pull (i'm strange)
 
The D Colt seems to be between the S&W J and K, as often stated, but I suspect it is a bit closer to the K. I dropped a 4" D'back into a Safariland K frame holster the other day and it fit like a glove.
 
I've always preferred the Colt D frame trigger to the Smith & Wesson J or K frame trigger. That said™, the D frame is much more demanding to work on.
 
I love the D models. I have a newer Magnum Carry model. I don't think the workmanship is a good as the older models. To many sharp edges that must be removed in the newer models. The older D frames have a lockwork near a century old. It has alot of hand fitted parts. A properly tuned Colt is a pleasure to shoot. It fits my hand better than a larger K-frame, but still is a little larger than the J frames. Totatally different feel between the guns. Try them both and then decide for yourself.:)
 
Hello. Though not snubs, both of these revolvers have 4" bbls. The top is the S&W K-frame Model 19 with the bottom being a Colt Police Positive. You can see the differences in frames.

Best.

fd788313.jpg
 
Stephen's photos show the differences quite well. IMHO for carry purposes: There is no better .357 than a S&W K frame and there is no better.38 than a Colt D frame. If you are just going to shoot- both are fun.:D
 
Colt D-frames's are actually closer to a J-frame than you might think.

K-frames's are thicker through the topstrap vertically, and have more room between the trigger and the hammer, which translates into about 1/8" more meat through the bottom part of the frame. K's also have a larger frame window, and a beefier crane hinge. But the BIGGEST difference is in the WIDTH, which doesn't show in the pictures. 5/8" wide K-frames are a good 1/16" fatter than a D-frame's 9/16", and 3/32" wider than a J-frame at 17/32" when viewed from above. This makes for a dramatic difference in weight between K-frames and Colts.

A Colt D-frame could be said to be a J-frame with the window stretched to accomodate a six-shot cylinder. The top-straps are almost identical, the trigger-to-hammer clearance is almost the same, and side-by-side from above, the frames are basically the same size, the 1/32" difference amounting to about five percent. That's worth about an ounce on a twenty-ish ounce gun.

Held in the hand, both the Colt and the J-frame definitely have a "little gun" feel, whereas the M&P has considerably more heft, and a bigger grip with a longer trigger reach. I can see why cops would like the D-frame Colt as a belt gun...they don't weigh all that much for a four-inch service gun. And in two-inch trim, they disappear just as well as any J-frame snubby, hence the much-talked about reputation of the Detective Special. Incidentally, K-frame speedloaders work with D-frames, making a Detective Special an ideal backup gun to a M&P on the belt. D-frames are also reputedly more accurate than the coil-spring S&W's. In my case, I have a Police Positive Special that's a good bit smoother than my M-36, but the Colt is from 1921, and the S&W is brand new. The M-36 is not so bad that 80 years of use wouldn't put it in the same league as the Colt, so that's probably a moot comparison.

But they weigh basically the same, and that's a bunch lighter than my early model pencil-barreled M&P. I think steel J-frame snubbies weigh 19 ounces, I'll bet my Police Positive weighs a couple ounces more in four-inch trim, but my M&P weighs 30-something ounces...a big difference. It seems to me that the primary difference between the D-frame and the J-frame is the six-shot versus five-shot cylinder, and the commensurate difference in diameter. Colt wanted a small-frame gun, S&W wanted the smallest revolver they could arrange. You sacrifice one shot for about 1/8" of cylinder diameter.

Of course, if you add aluminum to the equasion you get a whole different set of rules. 16-ounce Airweight J-frames versus ??-ounce Colt Agents versus the S&W Model 12 alloy-frame M&P which is REALLY tough to locate. And what does an M-12 weigh, anyway? And are there snubbies? I don't own any alloy revolvers, so I can't do an exhaustive comparitive analysis like I have for the steel guns.

You want to talk titanium? Or scandium? 9-ounce .357's? Enough already! :D

I like my little M-36. But I wish I had a Detective Special. A Detective Special is a snubby that goes to "11", it's just one better. ;)

H_R_G
 
I have long held that the Colt Police Positive, Detective Special (and I think the Cobra and Diamondback) are much easier to control than the S&W J frames. I don't think there is a better revolver made than the S&W K and N frames, but for small frames, it's Colt all the way.

Here's another M-19 K frame and Police Positive Picture.

standard.jpg


Love them D frames.
 
JAR’s picture is of a Colt Police Positive, not a Police Positive Special on which the Detective Special is based. The difference? The Police Positive has a shorter cylinder and was chambered in .32 Colt New Police (AKA .32 S&W Long) and .38 Colt New Police (AKA .38 S&W). The Police Positive Special had a longer frame and cylinder, but was otherwise identical to the lighter gun. The “Special” was chambered in 32-20, .32 Colt New Police, and .38 Special. Thus the picture could be slightly, but only slightly misleading when compared to a .357 Magnum S&W. I agree with all the good things JAR has too say about the Colt’s. One other thing - The extractor rod has a full length stroke which helps when ejecting spent cartridges, even with a 2” barrel. S&W “J” frame snubs have a much shorter rod which will extract, but not necessarily eject .38 Special hulls.
 
Folks, the great problem with Colts is that the cylinder timing wears out too fast. I've owned several in sizes from Detective Special to New Service, and I won't buy any more. S&W and Ruger cylinders stay in-time a LOT better.

Moreover, Colt's fixed sights don't shoot to point of aim for me nearly as well as do S&W fixed sights.

Lone Star
 
I like D frames as a "New York Reload" to a K frame. It is another American tradgedy that Colt quit development of Magnum Carry. I am having John Lawson build me a Police positive kit gun out of a 80's Detective special. I plan on shooting 173 grain Keith bullets at 900+ fps. from it's 4" barrell.:)
 
Having owned and carried snubby J-frames, K-frames and a Detective Special, I'l throw in my two cents.
I much prefer the DS to the J-frames. The little Smiths are just too little for me to shoot well. The DS, OTOH is an excellent size for CCW while still being big enough to shoot quite well. I carred a DS for several years and was never the least bit uncomfortable with it.
When compared to a snubby K-frame, its strictly a matter of taste. The Ks are a bit larger and heavier, but not enough to be of any real concern. With a good holster, I find both suit me very well. YMMV.
The advantage of caliber goes to the Smiths, which can be had in .357 Magnum. In my case normally, for a snubby .38 I go with the detective Special. If I should decide to go .357, then its a snubby Smith.

Should you decide to go Colt, there are some things you need to know in regard to the snubby D-Frame family. There have been three versions of the Detective Special. First Issue (pre- WWII), second issue (post WWII) and third issue (1973-86 which had the shrouded ejector rod). First and second issue guns are now pretty much collectors items. Third issue guns are the ones much sought after as carry pieces. Also in this family are the Cobra (lightweight) and Commando (parkerized) models.
All of these guns are out of production with the last ones being made in 1986. As a result, snubby D-frame Colts can get very expensive with good examples running in the $500 range.
There was a short lived Fourth Issue version of the DS in 1993 to 95. However, it has been reported that they failed due to poor quality control.
In 1995, Colt completely re-engineered the D-frames resulting in the SF-VI, DS II and Magnum Carry. While they are the same size as the old Detective Special, internally they are completely different guns. IMHO, none of these is anywhere near as good as the eariler DS and I wouldn't have one of them. In short, they were junk. It should be noted that none survived very long on the market. SF-VI (95-96), DS II (97-98) and Magnum Carry (1999 only).

To recap: If money is an issue, The Smiths are definately the way to go. They are plentiful, easy to find and considerably cheaper.
However, if you do find a nice original Detective Special and don't mind the premium price, I can promise you that you'll never regret buying it. ;)

JMHO :D
 
I have a Colt Police Positive Special (a bit bigger than the Police Postive so I guess it is kind of a D frame+) and a K-frame S&W 65LS (3" .357mag). I had a Taurus 82 (K-frame equivelent .38spl) and a Taurus 605 (J-frame equivelent .357). I think the Colt D-frames are ALMOST exactly between the J-frame and K-frame size, maybe being a tad closer to the J. The 4" barrel Police Positive Special is very noticably smaller and much lighter than the 3" 65LS. Actually, the weight of the PPS wasn't much different from the weight of the 605 (I never really could tell the difference in weight, though the balance was certainly different with one being a 4" and one being a 2").

When looking for a 2" snub I think either a J-frame .38 or a D-frame Colt would be very easy to conceal and either would make an excellent addition. In fact, I hope to own both a Detective Special (and/or Colt Agent) AND a S&W 60LS (an older .38spl version, not the newer .357s). Actually the K-frames aren't too bad either- I will always own my 3" K-frame snub (the 65) and may add a few 2 1/2" and 3" Ks someday (66, 10, 19).
 
Worthless opinion

Opinions are like certain bodily orifices.
I have a Colt Magnum Carry that was my primary deep concealment peice for over a year. Best gun ever made for that job by the way.
It was much better made than an older Colt Detective Special I had which was very loose and had timing problems with .38 ROUNDS....The Magnum Carry is still tight as a new Python after many hot 125 grain full house loads. The only reason I dont STILL carry it is because after it went out of production it went from being a tool to a collectible that would be difficult to replace in the event of loss, theft or confiscation following a shooting (yes it happens, even if you have a permit, depending on the situation).
I replaced it for carry with a .357 Cheifs Special. its a pretty good gun, and both are about the same size, actually, except the Colt had that extra round. Both guns fit in the same holsters by the way. For a while, I carried a snub K frame, but it was big and heavy compared to the Colt D-Frame. More of a belt holster gun than pocket or deep concealment gun.
The SF VI and the Magnum Carry are very good guns. Ask those who have owned them and used them. I have handled many of them and they were all really well built, something I cannot really say about the older DS series. A tight, well timed Detective Special is a very good gun, its just the latter versions of it like the Magnum Carry were generally better guns more able to stand up to todays hotter rounds. They are about the same size, except the magnum carry has a much thicker top strap.
The thing with buying used colts is that you have to remember for about 20 years they were plagued on and off with labor problems. Sometimes, unfortunately, that shows up in the product.


<<<In 1995, Colt completely re-engineered the D-frames resulting in the SF-VI, DS II and Magnum Carry. While they are the same size as the old Detective Special, internally they are completely different guns. IMHO, none of these is anywhere near as good as the eariler DS and I wouldn't have one of them. In short, they were junk.>>>
 
Too bad S&W never finished debugging their prototype C-Frame revolver (Model 73). It was intended to be a Detective Special-slayer, giving 6rds of .38 Special in a package between the J and K-Frames in size.
 
I do not understand why the Colt Magnum Carry has the reputation as a POS. Sure it would be nicer if the sharp edges were smoothed . The Houge rubber grip didn't fit it all that well. These things were easily fixed. Most things could be made better.
I do not claim to have a vast knowledge or a world of experience to be able to contribute to this comparison but I do know some things for sure. Every person who has shot my Magnum Carry has said very nice things about it. Many regret not getting one while they could. Some have offered cash on the spot.
It isn't perfect but I trust it completely, it's beautiful to behold, fits well into my hand and many popular holsters, and my wife keeps encouraging me replace it so she can have it.:D
 
Rep

>>>I do not understand why the Colt Magnum Carry has the reputation as a POS.<<<

It doesnt. Everybody I ever knew who used one, tried one or owned one liked it a great deal. In the gun rag world it was very well thought of by folks like Massad Ayoob and the notoriously hard to please Walt Ruach. Granted, mine might be nicer than the typical one, as it came out of the Colt custom shop, but I dont think so. I have handled three or four others that were regular production pieces that were just as nice. Only real difference was that mine had a lighter DA trigger pull.
When it comes to fit and finish, over the past couple of years Colts revolvers were far ahead of Smiths or Rugers. I know, I have owned all three brands.
 
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