Colt .38 Police Positive

I should not have left dangling anyone who really is interested (OK, no one!).

Neither of those guns has notches in the cylinder; the hand does double duty to both turn the cylinder and lock it in place, using the ratchet. Since there are no cylinder notches, the flutes were carried well to the rear ("long flutes").

One interesting sidelight is that after the Model 1878 was discontinued, Colt used up left over Model 1878 cylinders on the SAA by cutting cylinder notches. These are the scarce "long flute" Single Actions, made c. 1915.

Jim
 
Barring Dfariswheel hanging out his single and announcing he will work on the older Colts, it behooves us to learn how they function, are disassembled and reassembled. I am currently working on an old Colt Police Positive 38 S&W. The manuals are out there-Kuhnhausen's, e.g.- the tools are there, all we need is the patience and the willingness to learn. I like to quote the words of the late Professor Richard Mitchell, aka The Underground Grammarian. In an essay in which he held that the US education system had some responsibility for Three Mile Island and the failure of the Iran Hostages Rescue Raid, he noted that a helicopter is a very complicated thing, an nuclear reactor even more so-but they are both finite things-"the human mind CAN know them completely."
 
Barring Dfariswheel hanging out his single and announcing he will work on the older Colts, it behooves us to learn how they function, are disassembled and reassembled. I am currently working on an old Colt Police Positive 38 S&W. The manuals are out there-Kuhnhausen's, e.g.- the tools are there, all we need is the patience and the willingness to learn. I like to quote the words of the late Professor Richard Mitchell, aka The Underground Grammarian. In an essay in which he held that the US education system had some responsibility for Three Mile Island and the failure of the Iran Hostages Rescue Raid, he noted that a helicopter is a very complicated thing, an nuclear reactor even more so-but they are both finite things-"the human mind CAN know them completely."
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That is a good perspective to have from the viewpoint of a person who wants to learn about Colts. However, from the perspective a person who wants a robust, trouble free, easy to fix, easy to modify, easy to tune, handgun, then they would be better off opting for a S&W.

As in my experience with a VW Beetle, the mechanics thought they were great because they could put the engine on a bench to work on them. However, from an owner's point of view, the reverse gear would wear to a bevel and could not be held in gear, the heat exchangers would rust-out, the front end was very difficult to keep in alignment, etc.

From an owner of a Colt view, I would rather they did not go wrong in the first place and if they do, I would rather that it would be easy to find parts, and a competent gunsmith that could fix them. As each day passes, there are fewer of both.

I think I understand why the double-action Colts were dropped by Colt...it was about time, and it was the logical thing to do due to its lock-work. At some point, when beating a dead horse, one will almost always come to the realization that the horse is dead. I think Colt came to that conclusion.
 
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SIGSHR,

I quite agree. I got into horology, and I always hear folks say that its complicated as a clock or a watch, when clockworks are really not that complicated, you just have to understand them.

On these old Colts, you need to understand cam surfaces a bit, and linkages, but once you learn them, you can almost spot the cause of a problem as soon as you start looking at it.

I posted a link to an e-book earlier, from a Belgium author, and it is one of the best I have seen on these type Colt's.
 
Dixie,
I downloaded that book. Thanks for the link. I shows how a Colt should work. Now, if there was a good source to learn how to make it work better as in lighter, smoother, etc.
 
dahermit,

This is something that is hard to learn from reading about, but by watching, you can. There are a few videos by AGI on stoning triggers, etc, on different firearms, and that is what I would suggest. Also, there is another video done by Jerry Miculek, who does this on S&W revolvers for speed target shooting, and is titled; "Trigger Job: Complete Action Tuning for Smith and Wesson Revolvers with Jerry Miculek". Have look at the videos by Bob Dunlap, on stoning sears, and the difference between negative, neutral, and positive sear engagement, before you start, so you will be safe.

Trigger Job Video:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/262030/gun-video-trigger-job-complete-action-tuning-for-smith-and-wesson-revolvers-with-jerry-miculek-dvd
 
I thought I would add that, since the Colt is designed in the way it is, you are depressing the trigger against two heavy flat springs, instead of one, and really, there is no way to get as low of a pull as you could with having a separate trigger return spring, and hand spring, etc. The only thing one might do would be to experiment with the lower spring for the rebound lever, to lighten the pull, but it has to be strong enough to operate the hand correctly. By experiment, I mean to narrow the width, not the thickness, and relieve some of the tension.
 
The Colt is developing the habit of the pin on the trigger that works the "safety" (AKA hammer block), to come out of the slot. I put a round shim between the trigger and the side plate. Is this a common problem with Colt's and is the remedy a good one, or is there something better to try?
 
Has that pin on the trigger been changed?
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Not to my knowledge.

How about the lever that cams on the pin?
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No, and I checked it for flatness to make sure it was not bent.

I considered trying to push the pin further in the trigger, but did not want to subject the pin to bending or breaking...I do not know how tight the pin is in its hole in the trigger. The shim seemed like the safest and easiest to undo route.

The pin sticks out of the trigger on both sides, but I did not notice any function for it on the outer side of the trigger. Did I miss something? Does the pin, proud of the trigger, on the opposite side from the lever engage anything?
 
The pin should be flush on the outside toward you, with the end sticking out into the slot inside, forming the cam. If its sticking out to the outside, use a punch, and small hammer to tap it back flush.
 
The pin should be flush on the outside toward you, with the end sticking out into the slot inside, forming the cam. If its sticking out to the outside, use a punch, and small hammer to tap it back flush.
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Well, that would explain why it keeps happening. Thanks, I will seat the in flush and give it a try.
 
+1 to what DGS said. It should be flush on the left side (side plate side). That it sticks out too far on the right (frame) side allows for the safety to slip off.
 
One thing I might recommend on this, if you are not going to have the revolver where it could gather dirt inside, is you might apply a little thin white moly grease on the safety linkage. If its in a clean enough environment, it wont trap dirt, and help that slide. I always ask the owner first on this, but if it will be kept clean, then I add that. Also, a small drop of oil on the hammer and trigger pins, the cylinder bolt screw, rebound lever pin, and the hammer stirrup pin, will free things up a bit too. I use a needle oiler for this.
 
One thing I might recommend on this, if you are not going to have the revolver where it could gather dirt inside, is you might apply a little thin white moly grease on the safety linkage. If its in a clean enough environment, it wont trap dirt, and help that slide. I always ask the owner first on this, but if it will be kept clean, then I add that. Also, a small drop of oil on the hammer and trigger pins, the cylinder bolt screw, rebound lever pin, and the hammer stirrup pin, will free things up a bit too. I use a needle oiler for this.
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I used to use white grease on my Dillion 550b in the grease fittings I added (drilled out the oil holes and taped for the fittings). I found the the white grease seemed to dry out and become stiff...I do not know if it was the brand I was using, but I switched to standard Black Lithium grease for the Dillion and I keep a small can of Blue Wheel Bearing grease on my gun table for use on auto slides etc. At one time I had access to clear Silicone grease but I do not have any of that around now. As for oil, I have Rem Oil (and hope that the advertising is not just hype and the Teflon in it actually doing something).
 
I think it's just in the brand, and the color don't mean much, its just what I have. I use a pretty thin version of this, similar to what they put on car door hinges, thats non-drying, or it seems to not. I'm not sure what the base grease is, they just add the Moly to it, but it is thin. Mine came in a small tube, about two ounces or so. Anyhow, the thinner the better, just as long as it will adhere to the linkage, and in the hammer safety slot in the frame. It seems to make them slide a lot freer and lubricate longer than with oil.

Everything else, though, runs on pivots, so a drop of oil on each is enough on it.
 
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