Tim Croley
New member
For those of you who carry cocked and locked, did you get special training such as in law enforcement/military or did you just learn on your own?
Cocked & Locked Carry?
- Thread starter Tim Croley
- Start date
Blades, if you are in a certain branch of the militree you can't even carry in the CONUS.
Formal edjumakashun is vital, but no one "taught" me to carry like the way the weapon should be carried. I learned before I was in militree/LEO.
I could carry a Glock as a LEO, but not a 1911. Moi Bok! The hammer's cocked [sounds of panic, screaming, crying]!!!
Formal edjumakashun is vital, but no one "taught" me to carry like the way the weapon should be carried. I learned before I was in militree/LEO.
I could carry a Glock as a LEO, but not a 1911. Moi Bok! The hammer's cocked [sounds of panic, screaming, crying]!!!
I learned on my own, you just have to dedicate yourself to a higher level of training. J. B. probably designed one of the safest autos (1911) but with any weapon you have to master the main saftey yourself. A 10lb DAO trigger will not save you from an accident unless you keep your finger outside the gaurd until you are ready to fire. 
Maybe I am missing something, but what special training do you need to carry C&L?
To me it is the same as carrying a pistol in DA, I don't fool around with it, I only draw it if needed, and I keep my finger off the trigger till I am ready to fire..... what am I missing?
I was military we carried DA.
If someone plans to say "you have to be extra (or more) carefull" I will want to say "If you are at a level where you could be more carefull and safe with a gun but don't think you need to be, you shouldn't be allowed to carry one. Every time I carry or touch a gun I am as carefull as I humanly can be. Be it DA, C&L or Unloaded."
To me it is the same as carrying a pistol in DA, I don't fool around with it, I only draw it if needed, and I keep my finger off the trigger till I am ready to fire..... what am I missing?
I was military we carried DA.
If someone plans to say "you have to be extra (or more) carefull" I will want to say "If you are at a level where you could be more carefull and safe with a gun but don't think you need to be, you shouldn't be allowed to carry one. Every time I carry or touch a gun I am as carefull as I humanly can be. Be it DA, C&L or Unloaded."
I don't think I don't need a Military or Police to teach me on how to carry cocked and locked. In fact majority of the Military and Police are afraid to carry cocked & locked. Especially now, that they were issued with the M9, they might forget completely to carry the 1911 the way it was made to be carried.
Many of Mil & LE carry cocked & locked also, but it seems to me that the question showed that only the Mil & LE are expert in carrying this mode or we may say they are the one who will teach the civilian on how to do it.
Many of Mil & LE carry cocked & locked also, but it seems to me that the question showed that only the Mil & LE are expert in carrying this mode or we may say they are the one who will teach the civilian on how to do it.
Kirk Keller
New member
The instructors for my concealed carry class (both local sheriffs) basically told me that I should always carry with one in the chamber. In the military, I was taught empty chamber. The logic behind having one in the chamber is if the bg is pulling his weapon at the same time you are, chances are better than not that he's not going to have to rack his slide before squeezing off a round. If you do have to rack, advantage-goblin.
My father always carried a revolver with the hammer on an empty chamber.
My father always carried a revolver with the hammer on an empty chamber.
Tim Croley
New member
shy_man,
I was not implying that LE/MIL were the only ones capable of carrying this way. I was just curious about why those who carry this way chose to do so.
I guess what I was really asking was if you were trained at some point and continued to carry this way or if you just liked the design and trained yourself.
From what I can tell there are not many professionals who carry a 1911 as compared to the Glocks, Sigs, and many other more "modern" designs that are so prevelant in LE and Military today.
I was not implying that LE/MIL were the only ones capable of carrying this way. I was just curious about why those who carry this way chose to do so.
I guess what I was really asking was if you were trained at some point and continued to carry this way or if you just liked the design and trained yourself.
From what I can tell there are not many professionals who carry a 1911 as compared to the Glocks, Sigs, and many other more "modern" designs that are so prevelant in LE and Military today.
dairycreek
New member
I had to get over a psychological "hump"..........
before I could carry "cocked & locked" (Condition 1) confortably. I carried my 1911 in "Condition 1" but without a round in the chamber for quite a while. Wore it this way walking, jogging, dancing, sitting, standing, etc. until I had convinced myself that the mechanism functioned just the way John Moses designed it to work. Now I carry Condition 1 all the time and feel quite comfortable with it. Worked for me! Good shooting
before I could carry "cocked & locked" (Condition 1) confortably. I carried my 1911 in "Condition 1" but without a round in the chamber for quite a while. Wore it this way walking, jogging, dancing, sitting, standing, etc. until I had convinced myself that the mechanism functioned just the way John Moses designed it to work. Now I carry Condition 1 all the time and feel quite comfortable with it. Worked for me! Good shooting
CastleBravo
New member
Generally speaking, the "high-end" professionals widely use the 1911 design: FBI HRT & SWAT, Marine MEUSOC, Delta, and others with the good fortune to have bosses more concerned with hitting the target than getting sued. Most LEOs aren't authorized such scary-looking firearms. This doesn't mean non-1911 pistols aren't necessarily good, just that bureaucrats are scared of the 1911.
There is a simple reason to use a single-action pistol: the triggers are much better than double-action, safe-action and other designs. You get a short, light, crisp pull every time, which makes it easier to hit the target, or many targets in rapid succession, than fooling with a long DA pull, or a spongy Glock trigger.
There is a simple reason to use a single-action pistol: the triggers are much better than double-action, safe-action and other designs. You get a short, light, crisp pull every time, which makes it easier to hit the target, or many targets in rapid succession, than fooling with a long DA pull, or a spongy Glock trigger.
I taught myself. Military training was of no use. It seems the military is afraid to give its soldiers ammo, and if it does they are afraid to let chamber a round.
I carry mine concealed and of course out of sight, but I do know a Gunshop owner that decided to switch from carrying a cocked n locked 1911 and went to a HK USP because of customer concerns. It seems that it set some on edge to see a cocked 1911. Perhaps they equated it with carrying a cocked revolver. It's hard to get some folks to understand that the system is perfectly safe, but at the same time I can understand his decision from a business standpoint. I would probably do the same thing in his position.
Although I was a Unit Armorer in the Army and had extensive experience with .45s I still had some adjustment time until I was comfortable carrying cocked n locked. Knowing I had three safety systems to protect me..thumb safety, grip safety, and half cock notch, made me feel more comfortable. The Kimber II's and later Colts also have the firing pin block safety making even another safety feature added, although I don't care for those..that's why I have a series I Kimber.
Good Shooting
RED
I carry mine concealed and of course out of sight, but I do know a Gunshop owner that decided to switch from carrying a cocked n locked 1911 and went to a HK USP because of customer concerns. It seems that it set some on edge to see a cocked 1911. Perhaps they equated it with carrying a cocked revolver. It's hard to get some folks to understand that the system is perfectly safe, but at the same time I can understand his decision from a business standpoint. I would probably do the same thing in his position.
Although I was a Unit Armorer in the Army and had extensive experience with .45s I still had some adjustment time until I was comfortable carrying cocked n locked. Knowing I had three safety systems to protect me..thumb safety, grip safety, and half cock notch, made me feel more comfortable. The Kimber II's and later Colts also have the firing pin block safety making even another safety feature added, although I don't care for those..that's why I have a series I Kimber.
Good Shooting
RED
Tim Croley:
I'm still not clear on your question and suspect that there's something else behind what you are asking. For example, are you asking this because you think cocked-and-locked is somehow more dangerous or requires more training than other means of carry?
First, I suggest that everyone who is going to carry get some training beforehand, particularly on drawing and holstering. Many (most?) NDs occur while holstering. And they can occur with any kind of gun. Here's a link to just such an accident that occurred with a Sig:
http://www.frontsight.com/safety.htm
I've had training at LFI and SigArms Academy. That training was not specific to a 1911 and most of the other students were not carrying a 1911.
Does cocked-and-locked require "special" training above and beyond other types of guns? Well, when carrying condition 1, you need to remember to lower the safety on the draw stroke, but only after the barrel has passed through a 45 degree angle with the ground. Before reholstering, you have to remember to apply the safety.
With a DA auto, like a Sig, you don't have to lower the safety while drawing, but you do have to decock before holstering. With DA autos like S&W, Beretta, or HK, if you carry them on safe, then you still have to take them off safe while drawing.
DAO or striker-fired guns like the Glock simplify things since there is no manual safety or decocker.
Now, is condition 1 somehow less safe to carry than the other guns? Let's focus just on reholstering. Many NDs occur because the shooter leaves his finger on the trigger while reholstering. The holster stops the finger, the gun keeps going, and so the finger thus pulls the trigger. Boom!
With a 1911, if you remember to apply the safety before reholstering, then the gun won't go off if you leave your finger on the trigger. If you forget to apply the safety and leave your finger on the trigger while reholstering, it probably will discharge since you have a short, light trigger pull.
Let's compare this with a Sig. If you remember to decock the Sig and leave your finger on the trigger, then you may well have a discharge -- the only thing going for you is that you have a longer, heavier trigger pull. If you forget to decock your Sig and leave your finger on the trigger while reholstering, then you're in the same situation as with a 1911 -- you've got a short, light trigger pull. So how, exactly, are you safer?
With a Glock, if you leave your finger on the trigger while reholstering, you have a short, light trigger pull. You do have the option for stiffer trigger pulls that might give you a bit of help here.
Personally, I can't understand why some folks think condition 1 is more dangerous or requires more training than other guns. I think they just have an irrational fear of the cocked hammer.
M1911
I'm still not clear on your question and suspect that there's something else behind what you are asking. For example, are you asking this because you think cocked-and-locked is somehow more dangerous or requires more training than other means of carry?
First, I suggest that everyone who is going to carry get some training beforehand, particularly on drawing and holstering. Many (most?) NDs occur while holstering. And they can occur with any kind of gun. Here's a link to just such an accident that occurred with a Sig:
http://www.frontsight.com/safety.htm
I've had training at LFI and SigArms Academy. That training was not specific to a 1911 and most of the other students were not carrying a 1911.
Does cocked-and-locked require "special" training above and beyond other types of guns? Well, when carrying condition 1, you need to remember to lower the safety on the draw stroke, but only after the barrel has passed through a 45 degree angle with the ground. Before reholstering, you have to remember to apply the safety.
With a DA auto, like a Sig, you don't have to lower the safety while drawing, but you do have to decock before holstering. With DA autos like S&W, Beretta, or HK, if you carry them on safe, then you still have to take them off safe while drawing.
DAO or striker-fired guns like the Glock simplify things since there is no manual safety or decocker.
Now, is condition 1 somehow less safe to carry than the other guns? Let's focus just on reholstering. Many NDs occur because the shooter leaves his finger on the trigger while reholstering. The holster stops the finger, the gun keeps going, and so the finger thus pulls the trigger. Boom!
With a 1911, if you remember to apply the safety before reholstering, then the gun won't go off if you leave your finger on the trigger. If you forget to apply the safety and leave your finger on the trigger while reholstering, it probably will discharge since you have a short, light trigger pull.
Let's compare this with a Sig. If you remember to decock the Sig and leave your finger on the trigger, then you may well have a discharge -- the only thing going for you is that you have a longer, heavier trigger pull. If you forget to decock your Sig and leave your finger on the trigger while reholstering, then you're in the same situation as with a 1911 -- you've got a short, light trigger pull. So how, exactly, are you safer?
With a Glock, if you leave your finger on the trigger while reholstering, you have a short, light trigger pull. You do have the option for stiffer trigger pulls that might give you a bit of help here.
Personally, I can't understand why some folks think condition 1 is more dangerous or requires more training than other guns. I think they just have an irrational fear of the cocked hammer.
M1911
Cornbread2
Moderator
Anytime you carry a 1911 in the open you will always get comments from idiots.
Some stare at the gun for a while and eventually say, Hey man did you know the hammer is back on that gun? These people will drive you nuts after a while.
It scares some of them really bad. They waste no time in getting away from you. Sometimes this is a good thing. Sometimes not.
I carried open for years before we got our CCW permits. I was thought of as a moron and a danger to society for carring cocked and locked. If I had a dollar for everytime someone asked why the hammer was back on my pistol I would be a very rich man today.
Idiots that know nothing about firearms can NEVER be convinced that the 1911 was ment to be carried this way. I got so tired of explaining this to people too stupid to understand it that I stoped carring a 1911 open carry.
Some stare at the gun for a while and eventually say, Hey man did you know the hammer is back on that gun? These people will drive you nuts after a while.
It scares some of them really bad. They waste no time in getting away from you. Sometimes this is a good thing. Sometimes not.
I carried open for years before we got our CCW permits. I was thought of as a moron and a danger to society for carring cocked and locked. If I had a dollar for everytime someone asked why the hammer was back on my pistol I would be a very rich man today.
Idiots that know nothing about firearms can NEVER be convinced that the 1911 was ment to be carried this way. I got so tired of explaining this to people too stupid to understand it that I stoped carring a 1911 open carry.
Maybe the point that needs to be made here is that there is a big difference between "gun people" and people that carry guns, they are not one in the same. A "gun person" I will define as a person with an interest in firearms. Then there are the people that carry them because they have too or just want to.
A "gun person" should be able to learn condition one all by themselves, but it can't hurt to have a good trainer. Is condition one more dangerous than DAO? Absolutely NOT!! If you have a gun grab any idiot can shoot you in no time flat with a DAO, in condition one you should have some time to regain control of the weapon if they are not familiar with it.
Condition one has long be misunderstood by the military, police and the public. I am starting to see this trend change with the adoption of the Kimber by the Tacoma, WA PD.
For the past 12 years I have watched far to many police officers handle firearms like it was as unfamiliar to the as handling a deadly snake.
LEO approved to carry M1911A1 and P-35 on duty and off.
A "gun person" should be able to learn condition one all by themselves, but it can't hurt to have a good trainer. Is condition one more dangerous than DAO? Absolutely NOT!! If you have a gun grab any idiot can shoot you in no time flat with a DAO, in condition one you should have some time to regain control of the weapon if they are not familiar with it.
Condition one has long be misunderstood by the military, police and the public. I am starting to see this trend change with the adoption of the Kimber by the Tacoma, WA PD.
For the past 12 years I have watched far to many police officers handle firearms like it was as unfamiliar to the as handling a deadly snake.
LEO approved to carry M1911A1 and P-35 on duty and off.
Cocked and locked is more of a psychological hump to get over than anything else, at least with a 1911. There's that big hammer cocked back just looking for an excuse to fall. The fact is, you're several stupid mistakes away from that gun discharging. If it looks kinda scary that's probably good; it reminds you to stay safe.
And no, I've had no formal training. I've had good instruction from knowledgable people, many of them instructors, but never had to pay for it.
And no, I've had no formal training. I've had good instruction from knowledgable people, many of them instructors, but never had to pay for it.
Cocked and locked carry is not encouraged by the military.
Most people who carry C&L do so out of preference. I see some TFLers calling people morons etc. because they have expressed disquiet when seeing them carrying C&L. That's not necessary.
The fact is that C&L carry has a big tactical advantage but it is a dangerous mode of carry and when you C&L you violate a firearm safety rule of trusting manual safeties.
In this mode firing pin blocks are usually neutralised also. A hammer fall will fire the gun. Remember during reholstering, unholstering, a gungrab, a fight, a fall, an accident, an impact the safety can become undone.
My preferred mode of carry of a BHP is hammer down, round chambered. I recommend this wholeheartedly as the safest way to carry a SA pistol.
If I perceive a threat I cock the hammer as I draw. For movements with the firearm in this stage I will engage the safety. This is a big tactical plus as I can maintain the same trigger pull in such a situation. If I had say a Beretta or a Sig I would have had to decock to the longer, harder DA pull to make the gun safer. Mind you in a fire fight you won't notice trigger pull lengths and weight but you will notice if you are hitting the target or not. The longer, harder trigger pull has a greater probability of throwing the sights off target than a short, light trigger pull.
Most people who carry C&L do so out of preference. I see some TFLers calling people morons etc. because they have expressed disquiet when seeing them carrying C&L. That's not necessary.
The fact is that C&L carry has a big tactical advantage but it is a dangerous mode of carry and when you C&L you violate a firearm safety rule of trusting manual safeties.
In this mode firing pin blocks are usually neutralised also. A hammer fall will fire the gun. Remember during reholstering, unholstering, a gungrab, a fight, a fall, an accident, an impact the safety can become undone.
My preferred mode of carry of a BHP is hammer down, round chambered. I recommend this wholeheartedly as the safest way to carry a SA pistol.
If I perceive a threat I cock the hammer as I draw. For movements with the firearm in this stage I will engage the safety. This is a big tactical plus as I can maintain the same trigger pull in such a situation. If I had say a Beretta or a Sig I would have had to decock to the longer, harder DA pull to make the gun safer. Mind you in a fire fight you won't notice trigger pull lengths and weight but you will notice if you are hitting the target or not. The longer, harder trigger pull has a greater probability of throwing the sights off target than a short, light trigger pull.
Please...please...please...don't encourage other people to carry condition 2. It is commonly known to be the least safe of the modes of carry. If you choose to do it, that is your decision, but don't pull others down with you.
This is bull...C&L is no more dangerous than many modes of carry and much less dangerous than the mode you describe in the first quote. If you keep your finger of the trigger, it won't fire. You aren't trusting any safety but the one between your ears.