Cocked and UN-locked?

A

Adventurer_96

New member
I realized at the range the other day that someone might want to carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked, relying on the grip safety. I imagine it might be preferred by some who want the features of a single-action pistol, but might think the thumb safety might get in the way.

Mind you, this isn't what I think, it just occured to me that I haven't heard of anyone who advocates this kind of carry.

Thoughts?
 
It's not something I'd try or encourage anyone to do. The thumb safety is a major part of safely carrying a 1911 style pistol in condition one. Depending on if it's a 70's or 80's slide it could leave you with just one safety, the one that can be disengaged by less than one pound of pressure.

My advice, if someone isn't comfortable carrying the pistol with the safety in use, change pistols. There is a reason you haven't heard of anyone who advocates this kind of carry, it is not safe.
 
I don't think it is wise to carry a 1911 or any single action semi-auto cocked and unlocked. The thumb safety can be quickly and easily disengaged during the draw. Relying on the grip safety is not a good idea. I have seen some grip safeties that were virtually non-functional due to improper fitting. I have used 1911's in competition and swiping off the thumb safety becomes second nature if you practice just a little.
 
Apprently John Browning agreed with you

as his origional 1911 design did NOT have a thumb safty only the grip safty. He only added the thumb unit at the insistance of army brass. He personally never felt it was necessary.
I remember an old story about a Texas ranger many years ago who carred a 1911. He carried it in his waist band with the grip safty deactvated by a leather thong. He was also of let us say the slightly rotound perswasion but don't get me wrong as were many of the old rangers he was nobody to fool with. In his later years he was questioned by the then new firearms instructer at qualifcation with his gun and carry method. "Aint that dangerous"
questioned the instructer? His answer? "Son, it better be"
There was another ranger by the name of Lone Wolf Gonzlous who liked fancy pistols. His work guns were a pair of fully engraved 1911's with pearl grips AND THE TRIGGER GUARDS REMOVED FOR FASTER ACCESS. Don't try this at home. Yet anoither ranger you did'nt want trouble with. (seems to be a lot of those in the old days don't there<VBG>)
Just a few thoughts on the 1911 pistol and "safty" then and now.
 
Last edited:
Not a chance. If I even saw anyone doing that I think I'd quietly pack up and leave the range to him. With just a little practice that thumb safety becomes automatic. It's not like you have to stop to release it.

Yes, I've heard of people carrying that way. People do a lot of things. I just can't imagine why they would. Just my two cents worth, of course.:)
 
I'll have to agree with the chorus here, the slide safety on the 1911 adds no time to the draw and fire sequence, so there's no reason not to use it! I'm sure that you could get away with carrying without the slide safety engaged with the 1911, but I'm also sure you'd be less likely to have an ND with it engaged.
 
Don't get me wrong I would nevewr carry without

the safty engaged. I was just pointing out that others especially men who carried, used (and used well they lived!) the 1911 in past history felt about their safty devices. I can't say weither LWG ever used his saftys but with no trigger guards on his pistols I sure hope so. It was a different time and day. You and you alone were responsible for your actions.
 
It sounds crazy. IMO, the grip "safety" isn't a safety at all since it disppears the minute you put your hand on the gun. The thumb safety is basically your only protection when drawing or holstering the gun. Without the thumb safety, you would be drawing a weapon from holster with nothing but about a 4# trigger keeping you from getting a hole in your foot.
 
I read about a famous LEO that got jumped from behind and drew his 1911 and was trying to shoot the guy on his back but couldn't because he couldn't depress the grip safety holding the gun "backwards" in his hand. He survived that, and afterwards he always had a shoe lace tied tightly around the grip safety to defeat it. His buddies thought he was nuts, but he was never nuts enough to not use the thumb safety.
 
I think most people who advocate cocked & unlocked are concerned about FORGETTING to hit the thumb safety rather than slowing draw time. I happen to be one of those people, so for defense, I use a Glock or Sig or USP with hammer down, safety off.
 
Never seen that one. But, I know of a lot of guys who tape, or tie the grip safety.
 
Last edited:
If you are worried about not depressing the grip safety, get a modern style beavertail grip safety. These usually have some form of "bump" so that if you are holding the gun at all it will deactivate.

And if you have a gun with a safety, but choose not to use it, I think that you would be better off using a gun with no safety. For example, if you carry a USP with the safety off (perfectly safe) and you always practice firing with out having to remove the safety, what happens that one time when the safety is put on accidently? Or in a struggle, you safety is engaged, and then you need to shoot?

If I was scared of forgetting to take off a thumb safety I would carry a Glock, DA auto with a decocker, or a revolver.
 
If you are worried about not depressing the grip safety, get a modern style beavertail grip safety.
Click to expand...

The folks I'm referring to don't have any say in the matter. I've heard that the problem is being rectified though.
 
JMLV,

I thought it was the other way around...

The photos I've been able to locate of the Model 1905 appear to have a thumb safety, but don't appear to have a grip safety of any kind...
 
Of course, if it is a 1911 with some type of firing pin safety, carrying it cocked and unlocked is essentially a Glock with a grip safety (and better looks and trigger).
 
grip safety

The origional 1905 didn't have a grip safety. When Browning submitted the model later to become the 1911 it didn't have a grip safety. The Dept of the Army insisted on a grip safety so Browning put one on and resubmitted it. And as we know it was accepted as the model 1911.
As far as carring one with the thumb safety off, I don't even like to carry one cocked and locked, but then I agree with Browning and his origionally submitted gun and have deactivated the girp safety on all 7 of my models of the 1911. If I must I will carry it cocked and locked and do not want an inproper grip from a fast draw to slow down the first shot. I also shoot the 1911 in competition and want the grip safety deactivated for the same reason.
 
Anecdote: During the Nazi occupation of Norway some of the "good guys" who operated under cover, right under the noses of the Gestapo, had some interesting modes of carry. I'm thinking of one guy in particular. He wasn't resistance, there were also a number of Norwegian commandos operating under exile Norwegian/British command. (We were the only occupied country, as far as I know, to retain (partial) national control of both military and intelligence assets through our exile government in London.)

This guy routinely carried two 1911s, one in each coat pocket, safeties off, when he didn't expect any trouble. According to something he wrote, he liked to walk with his hands in his pockets, gripping the guns and depressing the grip safeties. He didn't make a big point of this, he mentioned it because he had a rust problem from holding the guns in sweaty hands. He wasn't the only one to this, more than one Gestapo officer were killed by a bullet fired from the coat pocket of an intented victim. (If this guy expected trouble, Sten gun and a supply of hand grenades would be the preferred armament.)
 
croyance

The glock is a DA auto. It is nothing like the 1911.
There is a lot of difference between carring a SA without a manual safety than a DA.

I did read somewhere that some european anti terrorist comando types used to carry their Browning High Powers cocked and unlocked when they were in for serious busisness.
 
Lots of history on this one.

I had a teacher in high school who had been a combat photog in the Korean conflict. He claims to have carried a GI 45 cocked and unlocked in a GI flap holster. I met him in 1964 and he was intact. Nor do I have any doubts to his honesty or abilities.

He also claims to have personally used more hand grenades than any other soldier in Korea. Different story.

I have heard the information about certain commando units in Rhodesia carrying Browning P35s cocked and unlocked. If one refrains from engaging the trigger until the appropriate time, I suppose it would work.

The original 1911 design did not have a thumb safety. The pistol was carried hammer down, just like the revolver would have been. The thumb safety was added on demand of the Army on behalf of the Cavalry. Once one cocked the pistol, it was very difficult (not to mention dangerous) to attempt to lower the hammer while mounted. The only two serious options were to shoot the gun empty, or add the safety.

Me, I'm a cocked and locked type. It just ain't that big a bother. But I'm politically incorrect in other ways, too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top