CMP Surplus Amo - Any good?
- Thread starter boxjeff
- Start date
The CMP doesn't stock ammo like a gunshop. 
The "30-06" for example is military surplus, a type called "HXP" which is equivalent to US made M2 ball. HXP is Greek manufacture
M2 ball and HXP chambers just like 30-06 but there are differences between M2 ball or HXP and 30-06, just like there's a difference between M1 ball and M2 ball. The differences may not matter depending on what rifle you're using, and then again it could potentially matter
The "30-06" for example is military surplus, a type called "HXP" which is equivalent to US made M2 ball. HXP is Greek manufactureM2 ball and HXP chambers just like 30-06 but there are differences between M2 ball or HXP and 30-06, just like there's a difference between M1 ball and M2 ball. The differences may not matter depending on what rifle you're using, and then again it could potentially matter
CMP site is a little confusing. Here's a link showing ammo sales at CMP:
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/relatedsales.htm
Click on "AMMUNITION" in the boxes above the stock blanks near the center of the page.
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/relatedsales.htm
Click on "AMMUNITION" in the boxes above the stock blanks near the center of the page.
chris in va
New member
The Greek HXP I bought last May has been 100% in my Garand and I highly recommend it. I would have bought more but decided to start reloading instead. The HXP brass I pick up off the ground has also been 100%.
Chris B said:
Not quite. They are all different loads of .30-06. .30-06 is what the gun is chambered for. It was our military's round through Korea, so, unlike .308 and 7.62 NATO, or .223 and 5.56 NATO, there is no difference between civilian and military chambers or their designations.
M 1906 Ball, 150 grain flat base bullet.
M1 Ball, 173 grain BT bullet (what .30-06 military match ammo was a taken from).
M2 Ball, 152 grain flat base bullet.
M2 AP, 168 grain flat base AP bullet.
There were also specialty rounds, like tracers and incendiary AP and blanks and so on. For a time they made cases harder for rifle and softer for machine guns to avoid head separations during rapid extraction, but I don't know the dates. But it's all .30-06.
A lot of foreign surplus .30-06 is made to mimic one of those loads. I understand the HXP brass isn't holding up through quite as many reloads as LC brass does, but that kind of thing varies a lot with the load used and whether or not the shooter knows how to properly stress-relieve the necks and shoulders (partial annealing).
Unless you have some kind of extra tight match chamber, you should be good to go as far as chambering and firing without excessive peak pressure are concerned. Some commercial loads use powders that keep pressure too high near the muzzle to be used in the M1 Garand, though. It's gas port is near the muzzle and those powders can damage to the operating-rod by running it with too much force. For the Garand you do best to stick with loads developed for it (handloads or Hornady Garand ammo, etc.) or using surplus military ammo.
A fellow on another board who used to be the testing director at Aberdeen Proving Grounds says LC had both a fast and slow lot of WC852 at one point. The slow was fine for machine guns, but ran the muzzle pressure a bit too hot for the Garand, so rounds loaded with the two were segregated by purpose. I've got some M2 loaded with WC852 (spherical propellant sold in canister grade as H380) with machinegun links marks on it (LC 72), but had no trouble with it in the Garands I tried it in. It was distributed by the DCM for Garands, so it's just the fast lot powder that also got used in machine gun rounds. Nonetheless, I am suspicious of machine gun fodder until I've tested it in a rifle with a strain gauge on it. That's the only example of the potential to have a problem with the military ammo that I know of personally.
I've also seen some photos in the CMP forums of a Garand blown up my very old surplus ammunition (late 40's or early 50's ammo, IIRC). I pull and reload anything over 40 years old at this point.
A fellow on another board who used to be the testing director at Aberdeen Proving Grounds says LC had both a fast and slow lot of WC852 at one point. The slow was fine for machine guns, but ran the muzzle pressure a bit too hot for the Garand, so rounds loaded with the two were segregated by purpose. I've got some M2 loaded with WC852 (spherical propellant sold in canister grade as H380) with machinegun links marks on it (LC 72), but had no trouble with it in the Garands I tried it in. It was distributed by the DCM for Garands, so it's just the fast lot powder that also got used in machine gun rounds. Nonetheless, I am suspicious of machine gun fodder until I've tested it in a rifle with a strain gauge on it. That's the only example of the potential to have a problem with the military ammo that I know of personally.
I've also seen some photos in the CMP forums of a Garand blown up my very old surplus ammunition (late 40's or early 50's ammo, IIRC). I pull and reload anything over 40 years old at this point.
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Any of it should be fine, except I would avoid the corrosive ammo when they have it in stock. That rifle is designed even for the slower powder commercial loads and is more tolerant than the Garand is of different pressures because it has no gas port. Most seem to feel the HXP is more accurate than the LC (sold out, anyway), but is also loaded a little warmer. The Hornady match ammo with the A-max bullet will have the lowest pressure but due to bullet weight will likely recoil most but will also be the most accurate they have. It costs by far the most. The 150 grain Hornady should be better on accuracy than the military ball, but less accurate than the A-max load.
So, the more you pay the more inherent ammunition accuracy you'll get. On the other hand, the 7600 isn't a benchrest gun, so you may not need more than the HXP will do for you.
So, the more you pay the more inherent ammunition accuracy you'll get. On the other hand, the 7600 isn't a benchrest gun, so you may not need more than the HXP will do for you.
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Uncle Nick, I said that M2 ball and HXP chambers just like 30-06. You even quoted me.
I understand that the rifle is chambered for 30-06 very well and my understanding that there is no "M2 ball chambering" is perfectly and crystal clear
However 30-06 Government, M2 ball, M1 ball, etc are not the same thing for all rifles. I have discussed why an M1 for instance needs to use certain ammo, not just 30-06, on this forum and I will not do so any more due to the attitude of certain members that don't take into account the gas port pressure or the bolt recoil- not you, other people.
I understand that the rifle is chambered for 30-06 very well and my understanding that there is no "M2 ball chambering" is perfectly and crystal clear
However 30-06 Government, M2 ball, M1 ball, etc are not the same thing for all rifles. I have discussed why an M1 for instance needs to use certain ammo, not just 30-06, on this forum and I will not do so any more due to the attitude of certain members that don't take into account the gas port pressure or the bolt recoil- not you, other people.
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I would use the 150 grain loads in your pump. Unlike the semi auto Remingtons you can fire heavier bullets, probably the 174's will shoot fine, but I really doubt heavier bullets are going to perform much better.
A very interesting article on these pump rifles is to be found here. I believe Mr. Wisner has seen a lot of these rifles over the years. If you ever plan to reload follow his advice for the semi auto versions and use small base sizing dies.
http://wisnersinc.com/additional_info/Remington_760.htm