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Closing L&P....

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The idea that politics and the discussion of politics can be held to some sort of civil tone is frankly wrong. Politics is just as contentious as religion, and probably more so because it includes religion and a host of other topics that people are more than willing to kill over. Any discussion of politics that does not end in violence is a civil one. Any future L&P forum should either be wide open or not exist at all.

I liked the L&P forum, but I don't think there will ever be one that meets the current standards of the moderators and owners of the site. The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of. If you disagree with someone on a point you think that on that point they are wrong. I don't respect someone I believe is wrong, and I find it hard to believe anyone else does either. People may act like they respect each other, but deep down when they disagree each thinks the other is an idiot, at least on the point of disagreement, and that opinion of that person is going to taint their entire view of that person.

In the end, I don't think the owners' and moderators' goals for L&P are realistic and as such we are better off without it. We all wanted to go into that forum and share our opinions on legal and political subjects, but the fact remains that TFL is not a free speech zone and as such we were hoping for something that wasn't going to happen.
 
I guess perhaps I'm a minority in my view here, but I see no reason to fear such a forum or what is in it. To say that not having it is better than letting it go on because some may find it offensive in some way seems illogical to me, given that everyone is free to keep themselves out of it if they do not like it.

That is true on a thread level as it is on a forum section level. Less choice is almost never better than more choice.
 
I would never attempt to moderate a thread in which I was a participant.
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Excellent, "divemedic"! That should be a rule for ALL Mods.
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+1.

It might just be best if mods avoided all highly charged topics. but in some cases, they are in a good position to give valuable insight.
 
Why do gun boards need a political section? I have it on good authority that there are tons of right wing political blogs on the net you can visit...and lets face it, that is what this political section had become.

There are tons of left wing blogs too so everyone should be able to find someone to argue with or agree with if they want to do so.

The purpose of this board was to promote responsible gun ownership and to paint a positive picture of the gun owning community. The right wing and sometimes quite radical slant of the political discussions in L&P pretty much prevented that. It is hard for newbies to find this forum non-threatening when thay are slapped in the face with a ton of "Obama eats babies" or "liberals hate America" threads every time they hit the new posts button. Especially if their political standpoint is anywhere left of Carl Rove or Rush. I have personally had several friends decline to become active on the board after lurking for awhile.

It has been nice to come to the board and hit the new posts button and be flooded with information, anecdotes, and discussions about firearms, shooting, and tactics for a change instead of suffering hits to your personal beliefs.
 
"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

So, you're also saying...

The idea that people can act responsibly and own guns is asing more than any human being is capable of.

If someone can't act logically, responsibly, and politely while engaged in conversation, then it is a given that they can't be trusted with a deadly weapon.
 
If someone can't act logically, responsibly, and politely while engaged in conversation, then it is a given that they can't be trusted with a deadly weapon.
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If you add "or a computer" to the end of this sentence, then we'd solve 99.9% of the problems with the forum and the internet.
 
I think that the integrity of this website went up exponentially when the decision was made to close the section where the anti-government, anti-police venom was spewing. Like PlayboyPenguin said, that's not what we're here for and it doesn't at all help our cause when websurfers or other outsiders stumble (or are directed to) this site and see that crap.

I'm all for keeping it closed. There are plenty of other websites for that sort of tripe. A site by and for lawful, responsible gun ownership isn't the place for it.
 
I think that the integrity of this website went up exponentially when the decision was made to close the section where the anti-government, anti-police venom was spewing.
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And here I thought the "Palin's son is really the product of incest" and "John McSlime" comments had something to do with it being closed.
 
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, Buzz. But you can't deny that that area was routinely used for cop-hating and anti-government conspiracies on a daily basis, mainly by the same small group of posters.

We didn't lose anything by denying them the free forum.
 
Buzz Knox

Go back and look through the threads that had to be closed because they were simple baseless propaganda. I do not think you will find many with a left wing slant.

Sometimes people on the left did make nasty comments in L&P but they were far, far outweighed by attacks/sleazy comments from the right. Just as was the case at THR. To try and pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.
 
"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

So, you're also saying...

The idea that people can act responsibly and own guns is asing more than any human being is capable of.
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That's non sequitor. It doesn't follow.

For me, it's a BIG, repeat BIG quantum leap from telling someone he's a bozo (either online or FTF) and pulling my gun on him.

When I was in high school, we all carried pocket knives. Anything with a 3" or less blade was legal. We played "mumbledy-peg" and "stretch", and cleaned our nails with them. As high schoolers are prone to do when the hormones are flowing, some of us got in fights. None of us even REMOTELY thought of using a knife. Using a knife was for cowards. We never made the jump from "games" to "cutting".

I've carried for quite a while. For the first time, about 5 years. This time, since April. As angry as I've gotten at some people during those times, I never even THOUGHT of the weapon on my belt.

My gun is not for settling arguments. This isn't the old west in Dodge City. It's for saving my life.
 
It is disingenuous at best to pretend that L&P wasnt worth the effort the Mods weren't willing to expend on policing it.

My bet is that many who claim it is best that L&P stays shut down themselves have made more than a just few posts there...
 
"That's non sequitor. It doesn't follow."

Oh?

So, you're saying that a person who can't control his emotions in an on-line discussion board is a perfect candidate to own a gun because he has such wonderful control... over his emotions.

That's a logical disconnect of the worst proportions.


No, the BIG quantum leap is assuming that having an on-line discussion means that participants will immediately break down into screaming morons.

That's what the original poster was claiming. Try reading it again:

"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

Obviously he meant respectfully. But if humans can't be trusted to master the most basic intra-human interactions without going over the edge (in the manner that caused many of the threads in L&P to be closed), how can we expect them to master the far complex concepts that go into owning a firearm -- personal responsibility, accountability, safety, trust...

I think the answer is clear -- you can't.
 
So, you're saying that a person who can't control his emotions in an on-line discussion board is a perfect candidate to own a gun because he has such wonderful control... over his emotions.
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I may be wrong, but I think what he is saying is that the internet has no consequences so people that feel ineffective and powerless in real can act without fear of retaliation. These same people may have the necessary facilities to make decision in their everyday lives but the lack of checks and balances online causes them to act out. They may be cautious, maybe even meek, in their daily lives. They might, in reality, be the proverbial 90lb weakling but online they can be the bully.
 
"These same people may have the necessary facilities to make decision in their everyday lives but the lack of checks and balances online causes them to act out."

May? MAY?

How can we take that chance?

We can't, obviously! Guns must be controlled because people can't control themselves!

Oddly enough, that's a line of reasoning that the anits have been using for years.

That line of reasoning comes up in the anti arsenal every time a state talks about removing restrictions on concealed carry.

That line of reasoning came up last week in the hearings on Capitol Hill about Washington, DC's, firearms restrictions.

It's always the same... We can't risk people being able to control themselves.
 
So, you're saying that a person who can't control his emotions in an on-line discussion board is a perfect candidate to own a gun because he has such wonderful control... over his emotions.
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Actually, he does. Emotional control can also mean you get mad as hell and NOT react with anything more than verbiage. Control at ANY level, is still control.

Tell me, and be truthful, how many times has someone cut you off in traffic? You slam on your brakes and yell into the windshield, "You stupid jerk!" Does that mean you're gonna get your gun and shoot them?

Control can be not starting, or it can also be going only so far then stopping.
 
It's humorous that those arguing so vociferously for the closing are the same individuals who argued so vociferously while it was open. The hypocrisy is precious.
 
If you just look at page 3 and beyond of most L&P threads, they are pretty bad. I have seen many good first pages, but far fewer good third pages.

I often find when I posted over there, I spend most of my time rebutting people attacking my earlier posts and overly clarifying my every position. Any simple statement over there seems to be read in the worst possible context.
 
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