Clearing a property

More suggestions.

Again thanks for all the ideas, I will respond to the ones presented in best order I can.

Dog- I suppose I could take my golden with me. She is protective of us and our home however I am unsure of how she would act in what is essentially someone elses home.

Taser- I would really like to avoide having to carry too much more than I already do.

Mace- Same as above

Lawyer- We of course have one for the business. If I am in a property that I have a managment contract on then I am good to go regarding forcing someone to leave etc. Of course deadly action opens up a ton of other legal situations for a different thread entirley.

Training- I have many family members who are LEOs one of whom is SWAT. Not here to brag about that....in any event I have done some informal training with him. That said I know I need more. Any Ideas on where to get such training in the Green Mountain State.

I will go over my EDC so you all know what I am already carrying...
At least one gun on my person
Iphone
Small Light
Pocket Knife
Wallet
Keys

Those are all on my person.......

The truck is equipped with more and stays locked keys on me.

Thanks
 
Vermonter said:
...If I am in a property that I have a managment contract on then I am good to go regarding forcing someone to leave etc...
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However, the amount of force you may use can be an issue. In general, lethal force, or the threat of lethal force, may not be used in response to a simple trespasser. I don't know what the law is in Vermont, but you should be sure that you do.
 
Legal Aspect

Our leases are basically short term vacation rental leases. Example John may be here from 5pm Friday night until 11 am Sunday morning. If he is at the property past that time or returns for any reason he is trespassing and I have the right to remove him from the property.

This exactly why I don't want to always draw and clear tactically because I could bump into someone who's friends are running late and he is simply waiting for his ride. If the situation were to escalate I figure it would go something like this....

Sir you have to leave.........No I am not leaving.........Sir if you are unwilling to leave I will have to charge your card per our rental agreement and alert the authorities.........

If the person didn't want me alerting anyone and advanced on me then and only then would the gun come into play.

I figure the standard for lethal force here would be the same as any other. I would need to legitimately fear for my life in order to use it and have no other escape route. Of course if I enter and find someone inside the escape route is behind me so that is option # 1
 
If it were me, . . . I would own one of those little hand held cattle prod like doo-dads that shock like lightning, . . . but are non lethal. It would be in my left hand as I went into the room/building/hallway/garage, . . . where ever.

Some look almost like a cell phone, and would not be "suspect" until it got punched and the volts started flowing.

I would use it in an attempt to de-escalate any physical attack, . . . and should it not be effective, . . . the right hand is free to draw, . . . and we will then enter "Altercation, Phase II".

May God bless,
Dwight
 
The proper tactical flashlight should have an output of at least 60 lumens, a hundred lumens would be better. Its true they light up a room, but it takes at least 60 lumens to blind someone. Also fully lighting and properly identifying your target are of paramount importance.

Many modern LED flashlights are varible, the one I'm holding right now has a low setting of 5 lumens, medium 30 lumens, high 81 lumens, Turbo 180 lumens. It also has strobe and SOS settings. The jury is still out on the effectiveness of a strobe, but I can tell you that 100 plus lumens in the eyes is painful, blinding and disorienting.

Someone who's eyes are adjusted to the dark will be temporarily blinded by a 100+ lumen light. In informal testing, several friends and myself have found it very difficult to advance into a 100+ lumen light. Once the light hits your unprepared, darkness adjusted eyes, seeing who is holding the flashlight and exactly where they are is next to impossible.

In your particular situation, keeping your pistol in your pocket, or holstered seems prudent and reasonable to me. Fully lighting and identifying individuals, before pointing a handgun at them is definitely the best course of action.
 
I have a surefire 6PX Pro. It has a 15/200 lumen output. The first push gives 15 lumens and the second gives 200. The switch is momentary or continuous depending on how hard you push.

15 Lumens is ample for looking into closets etc and 200 will stop anyone in their tracks. 1 button operation keeps it simple.

You can also get the 6PX Defender which has a nice sharp strike bezel.

The people you will most likely run across are clients overstaying their checkout time.
I don't think walking in with some type of taser or striking device would be appropriate especially in a state like Vermont that doesn't even require a permit to carry a handgun.
The people you're walking in on may also be armed.

A flashlight seems to be the most apropriate in this situation.
 
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I preform walk throughs of vacant properties on a daily basis for my job. Typically these properties are foreclosures that the owner has abandoned the home.

My wife and I carry guns with us in every walk through. You never know who may be in there just waiting to jump you. Several times I have found people inside these secured properties.

For my properties no one is supposed to be in them, so if I sense there is a threat, I will assume the ready position with my hand on my gun.

I think I have it better though as my properties are supposed to be vacant and I hardly ever find vagrants.
 
I love my pooch and play clearing the house in my own home (So what? He can't play checkers and it's fun and he loves it so there) but taking your dog could pose a huge liability issue should it actually bite someone.
 
thump_rrr said:
You can also get the 6PX Defender which has a nice sharp strike bezel.
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I just want to point out that there is a school of thought on this that suggests it's a bad idea.

1. It's "weaponized" and could be considered a weapon in a court battle.

2. Strike bezels do little to increase effectiveness, during an adrenaline surge are they really going to feel any more than just a dull percussion?

3. Strike bezels increase the likelihood of lacerations. Lacerations mean blood, blood that could be on you. While I'm a big proponent of knives, a big flaw in this is an increase in contact with blood born diseases.
 
Conduct your inspections during business hours in daylight. There is no reason to inspect a property in the dark with a flashlight. Lets say the burglar alarm went off in the middle of the night. Why not just let it go off and investigate in the morning? If the property is vacant and properly insured, will you lose anything?

Discuss the situation with the local police. Tell them that you have found people on your property who are not supposed to be there on occasion. Ask if they can help you out when the alarms go off.

There might be different opinions here about this, but I think you should let your presence be known before going inside. Honk the horn in the driveway, knock on the door and ring the bell, yell inside asking if anyone is there. I think most people would try to run out the door before you get inside.
 
During daylight business hours

Well Captian Obvious........
Lol your name is too easy there. I do most of my walkthroughs during daylight however interior rooms tend not to have windows therefore they require a flashlight.

Also,
Burglar alarm without response by a keyholder can lead to an insurance loss. IE our properties are insured by a special type of rental property insurance. This insurance requires response to emmergencies within a time frame. We also guarentee 10 min response time to any and all issues.

This is to say that I need to respond and investigate not that I need to go Chuck Norris and start breaking arms and legs. That is up to discretion as stated earlier in the thread if I show up to a swinging door and a moving van at midnight I am simply going to observe from a distance and alert the police.

Thanks, Vermonter
 
What is the use of burglar alarms if you arn't going to respond?

Isn't the OP required to provide security? What are they paying him for?

Don't most of these types of burglaries occur at night?

Am I missing someone here?

If I'm working nights (which I did most of my career), and dispatch gives me an alarm call, and I told her wait until daylight and give it to the day shift, I wouldn't have had a job when the day shift hit the street.

If its your job, either as LE or Secruity to protect property, then its your job, DO IT.

There is an old Western Saying, "RIDE FOR THE BRAND" meaning loyalty to your employer and doing the job he's paying you to do to the best of your ability. That doesn't mean pawn it off on the day shift.

Train to do building searches. In vacent appartment buildings you're going to find tresspassers and bandits. A little of "shoot-no shoot" targets will be needed in your training.

Vacent appartments are great places to find druggie flop houses and these people can be dangerous, be prepaired.

But FFS, if you're hired to do a job, DO IT. Get as much training as you possibly can, but you have to do the job you're hired to do. Its nice if you have a partner, but often that isn't the case.

I can't believe some of the post on this topic.
 
Honk the horn in the driveway, knock on the door and ring the bell, yell inside asking if anyone is there. I think most people would try to run out the door before you get inside.
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Yeah, like that will work; That tactic also allows the bandit to set up an ambush. I lost a good LE Comrade that way.

NO THANKS
 
Kraig

You said what I really wanted to there. I'm not a big pawn off guy never have been. Matter of fact I am a principle but of course the owner is my ultimant boss here. I do this because we tell folks we look out for their properties in their stead and they compensate us to do so.

We also have some elderly property owners who have the tendancy to not inform us of their occupancy in a timely manner. God forbid if one of them was at a property and an alarm went off. If I didn't show up to that my spine should be removed.

We respond to everything and we do it fast that's why we are here. We are not security we are property managers however this is a remote area.

This thread is about what to do when presented with the tactical information I have presented not about weather I should be there in the first place. I have already made that decision it is a personal decision and I am ok with the one I have already made.

Thanks, to all for the advise

Kraig especially yours as I value your expirence

Kindest Regards to all, Vermonter
 
Thieves have been stealing appliances from vacant homes for a long time. Now, they even steal the copper plumbing, water heaters, rugs, you name it.
 
Kraig's given you some great advice, as usual. But you sound to me like you've pretty much got a handle on your procedures. I clear my own property every time I come home from anywhere if I've been away for more than a few hours. But also like you, this is only if everything appears normal-if anything is obviously amiss, the police will get called and I'll watch from a distance. My flashlight is a RayOVac Sportsman Extreme, C-type, so it's fairly small, 180 Lumens high and I believe 75 on low. Cheap, and quite well constructed.
 
Supprisingly....

The most common items here are every day household items with very little to no resale value. Commonly missing items include
-Vaccume Cleaners
-Microwaves
-Toaster Ovens
-Cleaning Chemicles
-Batteries
-Bedding

Local PD seems to think that it is gang related believe it or not. They set up temporary appartments down in the "City" and do their dirty deeds.

Unoccupied properties on dirt roads in a small town in Vermont seem like soft targets and our goal is to make them as hard as possible. Thus the alarms, flood lights, deadoolt locks, and the fact that we respond when the whistle blows.

Regards, Vermonter
 
When i say women don't go in first I mean that our female cleaners or reservationist do not go to a property alone and never before a select few of us have done so first.
 
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