Clearing a house with a pistol/flashlight
- Thread starter GetYerShells
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The Canuck
New member
Okay, off the top. I have been trained to clear houses. Will I do it without at least three buddies who are good at it? Oh heck no. Will I do it solo if I can get away with not doing it? Absolutely not.
When you go room-room in a clearing exercise you are entering into an aggressor/defender situation. Sure its your home, but when you are going room to room you are the one who is aggressing. You are moving and making noise all the while the person you are trying to clear out will most likely stay static and listen and watch. When he sees you in the poor light, he will be better able to engage you before you will see and engage him. Ask any LEO how they feel about house clearing. These guys, who have the gear and the buddies will tell you one thing. "IT SUCKS".
If you can help it, do not clear the place, get to a safe room (panic room, whatever) and secure it. Then you become the defender and they become the aggressor, moving around and making noise and setting themselves up for the fall... then call the law and hold 'em of until help arrives.
When you go room-room in a clearing exercise you are entering into an aggressor/defender situation. Sure its your home, but when you are going room to room you are the one who is aggressing. You are moving and making noise all the while the person you are trying to clear out will most likely stay static and listen and watch. When he sees you in the poor light, he will be better able to engage you before you will see and engage him. Ask any LEO how they feel about house clearing. These guys, who have the gear and the buddies will tell you one thing. "IT SUCKS".
If you can help it, do not clear the place, get to a safe room (panic room, whatever) and secure it. Then you become the defender and they become the aggressor, moving around and making noise and setting themselves up for the fall... then call the law and hold 'em of until help arrives.
Lets see...youre going to clear your house because you think someones there, but youre not going to be having your gun pointed where youre looking? Really?
And again, a weapon light isn't an either-or question. There's no reason why you cant have a light in one hand and your gun in the other. The sudden bright light in the badguys eyes, with one hand free to manipulate doorknobs, switches, and phones is just a better way to go.
If you think someone is there- call 911. Cover the "fatal-funnel" to seperate you from them. Sit tight.
And again, a weapon light isn't an either-or question. There's no reason why you cant have a light in one hand and your gun in the other. The sudden bright light in the badguys eyes, with one hand free to manipulate doorknobs, switches, and phones is just a better way to go.
If you think someone is there- call 911. Cover the "fatal-funnel" to seperate you from them. Sit tight.
The purpose of a light is not to navigate your way along during house clearing--or any other time.
It's to illuminate the target an INSTANT BEFORE you make the decision to shoot. Such a light can be shined at the floor or bounced off the ceiling in order to determine if you're dealing with friend or foe so you won't end up pointing a gun at one of your kids, or Uncle Harry raiding the refridgerator. A room, or hallway, can be illuminated in this manner with enough light to check things out--from behind cover.
The light can be used in a number of different ways, but house clearing with the light turned on isn't one of them. And of course, it can be used to shine in the eyes of a known hostile target so you can see your sights. Boy can you see your sights
!This is basic stuff, I don't claim to be an expert. I'd recommend a video on the subject, like the one Clint Smith puts out, and hands on training as well.
I'd also recommend his tape on house clearing, which he doesn't advocate doing. Perhaps, the main value of the tape is to impress upon you the extreme danger involved, but it has great info in case you abosolutely have to.
My only light, at least at this point, is on my 870 for the purpose of positive ID before using deadly force.
OldMarksman
Staff
That's consistent with everything I've read and with what has been presented on Personal Defense TV.
My CCW instructor advised, "let the threat come to you."
bufordtjustice
New member
I agree that you are better to stay in your safe haven, call the cops and wait it out. That is almost always a sound tactical decision...but...
Sometimes a "safe place" is not where you or all your family members are are when an incident happens. To get to a safe place, you have to clear on the move, to make and hold a safe place, it has to be cleared.
Depending on the weapon, I either use a mounted light or a surefire with a lanyard. The way our house is situated right now, our infant is not near the master bedroom. I am planning on moving soon and rectifying this situation but this can't be fixed right now. The dog idea is also really solid. I will be adding one of those soon as well.
I have had hundreds of hours of training in CQB, low light, flashlight use, blah, blah, blah. It is most certainly a terrible, terrible idea to try and clear a structure by yourself...but for some of us...mostly those with poorly laid out homes, it will have to be done.
I stick to the axiom: "When in the dark, stay in the dark. When in the light, light up the dark." Lights should be used sparingly. As another poster stated, the power of modern flashlights is strong enough to illuminate most household rooms while the weapon is kept at low ready, etc.
Speed is also an important factor. If you need get somewhere, do it fast. While I am not advocating a mad dash, you don't need to be sneaking around on tip toes. Another valuable axiom is "To gain something, you have to give up something." To gain a room, you have just given up the room you left. You are almost always going to be vulnerable from at least one direction since you can't cover 360 deg. very effectively.
I personally believe that in some situations, such as mine, lots of noise is also a good idea. Verbal commands, comments about police, etc. Anything that I can do to put them on the defensive is a good idea. If you can distract them, even for a few seconds, that is a few seconds they aren't able to put together a plan of attack. It takes me around 6 seconds to get from the master bedroom to our daughter's room. The bad guy "knows" one of three things. 1) We are home and he doesn't care anyway. 2) We are not home and I just gave him a heads up that maybe he made a poor choice. 3) He is high, intoxicated or an EDP who, to one degree or another, is operating in a diminished capacity. In all three instances, by giving loud, clear verbal commands, I am going to buy some precious time.
In regards to flashlights, there are about a billion and one thoughts on how to use them. If you have mastered A style, try the others for familiarization but stick to what you are good at. The FBI used to teach a technique of holding the flashlight away from the body as described earlier. Most people seem to be using the Harry's (sp) or Chapman. For what it is worth, most night and low light shooting will show people with little or no training are prone to shooting high.
One tip that might also buy you some time is the closing of doors for unused rooms. In CQB you often find yourself flowing into the open room. If you routinely close doors to bathrooms, spare bedrooms, etc. BEFORE you go to bed, you will gain even more of an advantage. In my case, if a door is shut, I can bypass it quickly and get to my child's room. That doesn't mean a bad guy isn't in there, it means HE will have to fiddle with the door knob, place himself a a fatal funnel, etc, to move and not me. Every room I can close off like that helps me out that much more.
Sometimes a "safe place" is not where you or all your family members are are when an incident happens. To get to a safe place, you have to clear on the move, to make and hold a safe place, it has to be cleared.
Depending on the weapon, I either use a mounted light or a surefire with a lanyard. The way our house is situated right now, our infant is not near the master bedroom. I am planning on moving soon and rectifying this situation but this can't be fixed right now. The dog idea is also really solid. I will be adding one of those soon as well.
I have had hundreds of hours of training in CQB, low light, flashlight use, blah, blah, blah. It is most certainly a terrible, terrible idea to try and clear a structure by yourself...but for some of us...mostly those with poorly laid out homes, it will have to be done.
I stick to the axiom: "When in the dark, stay in the dark. When in the light, light up the dark." Lights should be used sparingly. As another poster stated, the power of modern flashlights is strong enough to illuminate most household rooms while the weapon is kept at low ready, etc.
Speed is also an important factor. If you need get somewhere, do it fast. While I am not advocating a mad dash, you don't need to be sneaking around on tip toes. Another valuable axiom is "To gain something, you have to give up something." To gain a room, you have just given up the room you left. You are almost always going to be vulnerable from at least one direction since you can't cover 360 deg. very effectively.
I personally believe that in some situations, such as mine, lots of noise is also a good idea. Verbal commands, comments about police, etc. Anything that I can do to put them on the defensive is a good idea. If you can distract them, even for a few seconds, that is a few seconds they aren't able to put together a plan of attack. It takes me around 6 seconds to get from the master bedroom to our daughter's room. The bad guy "knows" one of three things. 1) We are home and he doesn't care anyway. 2) We are not home and I just gave him a heads up that maybe he made a poor choice. 3) He is high, intoxicated or an EDP who, to one degree or another, is operating in a diminished capacity. In all three instances, by giving loud, clear verbal commands, I am going to buy some precious time.
In regards to flashlights, there are about a billion and one thoughts on how to use them. If you have mastered A style, try the others for familiarization but stick to what you are good at. The FBI used to teach a technique of holding the flashlight away from the body as described earlier. Most people seem to be using the Harry's (sp) or Chapman. For what it is worth, most night and low light shooting will show people with little or no training are prone to shooting high.
One tip that might also buy you some time is the closing of doors for unused rooms. In CQB you often find yourself flowing into the open room. If you routinely close doors to bathrooms, spare bedrooms, etc. BEFORE you go to bed, you will gain even more of an advantage. In my case, if a door is shut, I can bypass it quickly and get to my child's room. That doesn't mean a bad guy isn't in there, it means HE will have to fiddle with the door knob, place himself a a fatal funnel, etc, to move and not me. Every room I can close off like that helps me out that much more.
military view
I Spoke with some Seals when i was in the NAVy long long ago...
They said in tranning.. they have an deal where they do something like this...
it is 4 or 5 of them and 1 guy in the place/room...
they said..... almost always he gets them first..
from that.. I used his info to build my plan should something like this happen...
Running to a safe place 1 room and keeping everyone in it...
they told me the often Loose... for a few reasons... all of which are your advantage if you are in 1 room...
you can use 2 rooms if you have 2 people with guns... as long as your aware of location and rules... so you don't nail each other..
Going to 1 room turns the tides should you have to shoot...
1.. you are aware of the location of everyone on the house... ( and have a good idea of the directions from which you will be attacked)
the person coming in the room.. has no idea where you are...
nor is he/she/it aware that you have a gun..
2. you can now use the power of scaring the CRAP out of anyone by flinging a few rounds throught the wall in the general direction of any noise coming to you.. From my understanding.. everyone runs when round fly by their head...
Just keep in mind.. when you send rounds through the walls.. you know what limits they have... and close ideas as to where they are going... u don't want to force your neighbor to loose a beer from your crazy aim...
shooting up towards the sky is ok... just the noise of the gun should make them run...
Keep in mind.. Bad guys are risk adverse... they hear a gun and can't see you.. it is not likely they will hang around..
I Spoke with some Seals when i was in the NAVy long long ago...
They said in tranning.. they have an deal where they do something like this...
it is 4 or 5 of them and 1 guy in the place/room...
they said..... almost always he gets them first..
from that.. I used his info to build my plan should something like this happen...
Running to a safe place 1 room and keeping everyone in it...
they told me the often Loose... for a few reasons... all of which are your advantage if you are in 1 room...
you can use 2 rooms if you have 2 people with guns... as long as your aware of location and rules... so you don't nail each other..
Going to 1 room turns the tides should you have to shoot...
1.. you are aware of the location of everyone on the house... ( and have a good idea of the directions from which you will be attacked)
the person coming in the room.. has no idea where you are...
nor is he/she/it aware that you have a gun..
2. you can now use the power of scaring the CRAP out of anyone by flinging a few rounds throught the wall in the general direction of any noise coming to you.. From my understanding.. everyone runs when round fly by their head...
Just keep in mind.. when you send rounds through the walls.. you know what limits they have... and close ideas as to where they are going... u don't want to force your neighbor to loose a beer from your crazy aim...
shooting up towards the sky is ok... just the noise of the gun should make them run...
Keep in mind.. Bad guys are risk adverse... they hear a gun and can't see you.. it is not likely they will hang around..
OldMarksman
Staff
Keep in mind that the SEALS have an entirely different objective. Theirs is to search and destroy. Yours is to save you and yours from imminent grave harm in an emergency, and if you are in a castle doctrine state and someone breaks in you can generally presume that the fact of a break-in has put you in imminent danger. Check you state laws regarding any obligation you may have to retreat.
Careful--firing a warning shot is illegal in a lot of jurisdictions.
You may want to talk to an LEO who has dealt with meth addicts before relying on that conclusion.
That's the most STUPID thing I've ever heard in TFL. Firing shots into the air? Through walls? In the general direction?
Can you say, "reckless endangerment?"
The only, ONLY, I repeat, ONLY time you pull the trigger is to save a life. You shouldn't be allowed to even HAVE a gun. You scare me.
andrewskaggs
New member
OldMarksman said:
In addition to the fact that you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your weapon. Projectiles returning to Earth can be quite deadly.
understand
I get your points..
my point is.. I would rather not have anyone get near me..
From what i have learned and was told, If your not ready to fire.. and the guy is a few feet from ya.. you have a problem( I forget the stats, i will find them)...the space will depend on a few things.. but I think the stats are 5-8 feet is for the avg person.. Guys are "over all" risk adverse so a small show of force is most likely gonig to help you get out of a bad bad situation... The type of chriminal we deal with will most likely be area dependent.. so my actions will be different that others...
IE .. stay quiet because they may have a gun to..
My post was an in general... I am just posting what i have been told by police officers and spec war guys i have known from the military... how good are they with their "Thinking" is to anyones opinion/guess.. i really have no idea... just posting what they have said..
And the guys I had known in the NAVY which were/are some of the best..... have said..
No matter the thinking anyone has about how to do things..
if you see the guy and your not ready to shoot. u most likely won't get your gun drawn before your in a fight.. knifed or whatever.. If you do.. your lucky, good, or loved a lot more than the other guy by God.
So at all cost.. keep the distance...
and as to me and danger I am not sure.. mabye.. My rules are made by the guys I have know who do this stuff for a living..
Now.. please keep in mind... I don't mean just shoot at anything at random.. that wasn't my meaning... sorry if people took it that way.. I was trying to make the point/I have been told by everyone to do SOMETHNG that shows force and it will more often than NOT resolve your situation..
you guys can clear rooms all you want.. I am doing what was suggested by some very good guys.. sitting my @$$ still, hidden, and shooting anything that comes near me with out introducing themselvs... while i wait for the police to show up...
My goal is to control the situation, not have it controlled for me.. Unless you train heavily and by a PRO.. your not in at advantage clearing rooms... and will likely get killed should the guy be looking out for you.. God help ya if there is more than one..
Since i don't train like that... My goal is to keep guys at a distance from myself and my family.. till the police show up..
-- As to the law --
In Georgia the law has changed.. if your life is threatened your allowed to ask questions later…(there are more details to the law, but that is the base of the whole deal, and from what i have seen.. it is treated that way..) The Crime in my area was BAD BAD BAD and getting worse. That small town(atlanta, Dekalb, conyers, stonemountain area) was starting to see drive by shootings.. and in Conyers of all places..
.. BUT since that law has passed many moons ago it has cleared up a ton.. People still break in homes, but not NEAR what it was.. and I have not read anything in the paper about Arrest of people who were protecting themselvs.. so BOO!! to the NAY sayers of that Law which i think was taken after the law that was passed in flordia not to long ago..
I spoke with a Dekalb officer who said he didn't think the new law was fair..
If i shoot someone, it is ok.. if he does.. It is a big deal. tons of papers, and likely his job
I still don't understand how that works...
I get your points..
my point is.. I would rather not have anyone get near me..
From what i have learned and was told, If your not ready to fire.. and the guy is a few feet from ya.. you have a problem( I forget the stats, i will find them)...the space will depend on a few things.. but I think the stats are 5-8 feet is for the avg person.. Guys are "over all" risk adverse so a small show of force is most likely gonig to help you get out of a bad bad situation... The type of chriminal we deal with will most likely be area dependent.. so my actions will be different that others...
IE .. stay quiet because they may have a gun to..
My post was an in general... I am just posting what i have been told by police officers and spec war guys i have known from the military... how good are they with their "Thinking" is to anyones opinion/guess.. i really have no idea... just posting what they have said..
And the guys I had known in the NAVY which were/are some of the best..... have said..
No matter the thinking anyone has about how to do things..
if you see the guy and your not ready to shoot. u most likely won't get your gun drawn before your in a fight.. knifed or whatever.. If you do.. your lucky, good, or loved a lot more than the other guy by God.
So at all cost.. keep the distance...
and as to me and danger I am not sure.. mabye.. My rules are made by the guys I have know who do this stuff for a living..
Now.. please keep in mind... I don't mean just shoot at anything at random.. that wasn't my meaning... sorry if people took it that way.. I was trying to make the point/I have been told by everyone to do SOMETHNG that shows force and it will more often than NOT resolve your situation..
you guys can clear rooms all you want.. I am doing what was suggested by some very good guys.. sitting my @$$ still, hidden, and shooting anything that comes near me with out introducing themselvs... while i wait for the police to show up...
My goal is to control the situation, not have it controlled for me.. Unless you train heavily and by a PRO.. your not in at advantage clearing rooms... and will likely get killed should the guy be looking out for you.. God help ya if there is more than one..
Since i don't train like that... My goal is to keep guys at a distance from myself and my family.. till the police show up..
-- As to the law --
In Georgia the law has changed.. if your life is threatened your allowed to ask questions later…(there are more details to the law, but that is the base of the whole deal, and from what i have seen.. it is treated that way..) The Crime in my area was BAD BAD BAD and getting worse. That small town(atlanta, Dekalb, conyers, stonemountain area) was starting to see drive by shootings.. and in Conyers of all places..
.. BUT since that law has passed many moons ago it has cleared up a ton.. People still break in homes, but not NEAR what it was.. and I have not read anything in the paper about Arrest of people who were protecting themselvs.. so BOO!! to the NAY sayers of that Law which i think was taken after the law that was passed in flordia not to long ago..I spoke with a Dekalb officer who said he didn't think the new law was fair..
If i shoot someone, it is ok.. if he does.. It is a big deal. tons of papers, and likely his job
I still don't understand how that works...Don't worry, I wouldn't get within a mile of you.
Now, what you really need to do is stop talking to your SEAL buddies and cop friends and stop reading about SPECOPS in paperbacks and start reading some gun law for your state and taking some gun safety/handling courses. A CWP course wouldn't be bad either.
Seals, army personnel, and cops are VERY different from private citizens: in their role, their training, their duty, their purpose. Start reading guys like Masaad Ayoob and others who are legends in the PD world.
I keep a flashlight next to my nightstand gun. I have trained to use a flashlight to clear spaces. Make no mistake...space clearing using flashlights even done as a group effort is no fun. Usually (if not always), the point man and sometimes the second guy through the door gets it. It is why doorways are known as "the funnel of death". It is why I will not use a flashlight to clear my home. But I will keep a flashlight on my person and handy.
As for clearing my home, I will not call the police and "bunker down" for every single bump in the night. There have been numerous times where I have ventured out of the bedroom, gun in hand, to ensure that all is indeed well. That is not to say that I will investigate every noise...especially when I am fairly certain that the source of the noise is a home invader.
I consider any person who is inside my home that my family or I am occupying, whether it is for burglary or other reasons, and who is uninvited, to be a home invader.
I have thought long and hard about what I am prepared to do in the event of a home invasion and the possible consequences of action...or inaction. I have come to the decision that home invaders who do not instantly give up will be shot on sight, no warning and no questions asked. And where in the house that happens will depend solely on my choosing.
Obviously, positive identification is paramount. Because my soon to be born child will be sleeping in a different room than my wife and me, I will obviously be forced to exit my room in order to collect her. All occupants in my home will be accounted before I go for batteries release on any targets. Yes, I will likely hunker down and wait for the cavalry to arrive, but in the mean time, I fully intend on making my bedroom doorway a virtual 'funnel of death' as best I can.
As for clearing my home, I will not call the police and "bunker down" for every single bump in the night. There have been numerous times where I have ventured out of the bedroom, gun in hand, to ensure that all is indeed well. That is not to say that I will investigate every noise...especially when I am fairly certain that the source of the noise is a home invader.
I consider any person who is inside my home that my family or I am occupying, whether it is for burglary or other reasons, and who is uninvited, to be a home invader.
I have thought long and hard about what I am prepared to do in the event of a home invasion and the possible consequences of action...or inaction. I have come to the decision that home invaders who do not instantly give up will be shot on sight, no warning and no questions asked. And where in the house that happens will depend solely on my choosing.
Obviously, positive identification is paramount. Because my soon to be born child will be sleeping in a different room than my wife and me, I will obviously be forced to exit my room in order to collect her. All occupants in my home will be accounted before I go for batteries release on any targets. Yes, I will likely hunker down and wait for the cavalry to arrive, but in the mean time, I fully intend on making my bedroom doorway a virtual 'funnel of death' as best I can.
OldMarksman
Staff
I couldn't agree more!
OldMarksman
Staff
Good thinking. But if ominous noises recur....
Toward what end? That goes against the advice of most of the experts.
By the way, I used to do that too. Not anymore.
Like I said, every bump in the night noise is not a home invader. I will always check "the noise", gun in hand (out of prudence), to ensure that the noise my wife or I heard wasn't the supply line to the ice-maker popping or an electrical socket catching fire, the water heater tank cracking open or whatever. I carry the gun in case I am wrong. But like I also said, if I am fairly certain that bump in the night is a home invader, I will call for the cavalry after I collect my family. Then and only then will I bunker down.
OldMarksman
Staff
I suggest that you follow Keltyke's advice and learn something about the law from a qualified source.
According to my lay understanding, the substance of the amendment was to specify that you have no duty to retreat under certain circumstances involving defense of person, habitat, or other property. It also provides you with a strong measure of protection against civil suits.
You still have to have a "reasonable belief" that use of force is justified under the circumstances. You will undoubtedly not be the final arbiter of whether your belief met the "reasonable person' standard under the law.
And also according to my lay reading of the statutes, the responsibility still falls to you to mount an affirmative defense to substantiate that any homicide committed by you is legally justified. What that will involve will no doubt depend upon the circumstances.
Do not take any of the above as qualified legal advice--seek expert advice, and do not listen to anyone who tells you that "if you shoot someone it's ok."
Do not take any of the above as qualified legal advice--
seek expert advice, and do not listen to anyone who tells you that "if you shoot someone it's ok."
-----
I am not stupid.. And fully understand… As I Noted my post “The more details part“…
I am not suggesting it was said that it was ok to just shoot… I am saying.. If your in a serious situation and have “reasonable” fear for your life.. Your ok to defend yourself.. That officer, even when he is in the right.. Will get into some trouble.. For me it is a choice of defense, for him it is also politics.. And that, for him, isn’t fair..
----------------------------------------------------------------
In Georgia the law has changed.. if your life is threatened your allowed to ask questions later…
(there are more details to the law, but that is the base of the whole deal, and from what i have seen.. it is treated that way..)
---------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest that you follow Keltyke's advice and learn something about the law from a qualified source.
------
Absolutely.. I am ordering 2 books today.. One of which is teaching kids about guns.. I Know zero about donig that..…
Gunproof Your Children
& Handgun Primer
By Massad Ayoob
Look.. I think all this is a bit of a miss read that has gone a bit left of right… I was actually just agreeing with keltyke’s post about staying cool and out of the way… and pointing out that even PROs have issues with it(clearing rooms).. If a Guy who is as advanced as a SEAL who specializes in clearing rooms ( also backing keltykes statements…) .. Says…Unless you’re a PRO it isn’t a good idea… then it really isn’t a good idea.. It is best that you’re the one in the room since your at an advantage… it is best to follow exactly what keltyke’s saying..
I understand the statement about putting a bullet through the wall was misleading and over stated (but it turns out to be a very serious failure attempt at humor ).
I was thinking the following would help people understand I wasn’t serious:
---U don't want to force your neighbor to loose a beer from your crazy aim...
-- I think keltyke took it literal… --
That's the most STUPID thing I've ever heard in TFL. Firing shots into the air? Through walls? In the general direction?
--------------------------------------------
I am not at all saying that I am just going to unload at the first click of noise…. If that is how it was taken.. That is fine.. Either way.. I don’t care..
One thing for sure though...
Odd to have never hear of Massad Ayoob… I have a few generations of police in my family.. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! --
since I have to spell stuff out for people……
The HAHA is a nervous laugh at the value of experience of the guys I Know.. Who give advice. They travel to peoples homes for home Defense meetings, neighborhood watch.. Junk like that.. They are telling people to use a warning shot if there is someone in their home as a show of force if they simply are scared and feel they have to do something… Good/Bad/Right/Wrong.. I have no idea.. Which is why I post the nervous laugh.. I am thinking i have never heard of Massad because my family just doesn't talk about him... never had to...
seek expert advice, and do not listen to anyone who tells you that "if you shoot someone it's ok."
-----
I am not stupid.. And fully understand… As I Noted my post “The more details part“…
I am not suggesting it was said that it was ok to just shoot… I am saying.. If your in a serious situation and have “reasonable” fear for your life.. Your ok to defend yourself.. That officer, even when he is in the right.. Will get into some trouble.. For me it is a choice of defense, for him it is also politics.. And that, for him, isn’t fair..
----------------------------------------------------------------
In Georgia the law has changed.. if your life is threatened your allowed to ask questions later…
(there are more details to the law, but that is the base of the whole deal, and from what i have seen.. it is treated that way..)
---------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest that you follow Keltyke's advice and learn something about the law from a qualified source.
------
Absolutely.. I am ordering 2 books today.. One of which is teaching kids about guns.. I Know zero about donig that..…
Gunproof Your Children
& Handgun Primer
By Massad Ayoob
Look.. I think all this is a bit of a miss read that has gone a bit left of right… I was actually just agreeing with keltyke’s post about staying cool and out of the way… and pointing out that even PROs have issues with it(clearing rooms).. If a Guy who is as advanced as a SEAL who specializes in clearing rooms ( also backing keltykes statements…) .. Says…Unless you’re a PRO it isn’t a good idea… then it really isn’t a good idea.. It is best that you’re the one in the room since your at an advantage… it is best to follow exactly what keltyke’s saying..
I understand the statement about putting a bullet through the wall was misleading and over stated (but it turns out to be a very serious failure attempt at humor ).
I was thinking the following would help people understand I wasn’t serious:
---U don't want to force your neighbor to loose a beer from your crazy aim...
-- I think keltyke took it literal… --
That's the most STUPID thing I've ever heard in TFL. Firing shots into the air? Through walls? In the general direction?
--------------------------------------------
I am not at all saying that I am just going to unload at the first click of noise…. If that is how it was taken.. That is fine.. Either way.. I don’t care..
One thing for sure though...
Odd to have never hear of Massad Ayoob… I have a few generations of police in my family.. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! --
since I have to spell stuff out for people……
The HAHA is a nervous laugh at the value of experience of the guys I Know.. Who give advice. They travel to peoples homes for home Defense meetings, neighborhood watch.. Junk like that.. They are telling people to use a warning shot if there is someone in their home as a show of force if they simply are scared and feel they have to do something… Good/Bad/Right/Wrong.. I have no idea.. Which is why I post the nervous laugh.. I am thinking i have never heard of Massad because my family just doesn't talk about him... never had to...