Cleaning brass

Will see if spotless shinny brass helps . This weekend a friend of mine was having problems with ejecting some cases from his bolt action . I looked at his brass , looked pretty dull . I offered to clean them up with my stainless steel tumbler , he agreed . He only neck sizes , after cleaning his brass , which came out like new , I checked he cases , they looked good but the measurements were all over the place .

Had to F/L size to spec's & trim , on a .223 trim length 1.750 - 60 trimmed to 1.755 . Now I can't tell if his problem was grime or inconsistent measurements . The test will have to be put off . Have to say the rounds look like store bought , let's see how they work .
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If he shoots a semi auto he needs to FL

If its a bolt, you still need to FL

And you always have to keep an eye on Case Length.

None has to do with shiny brass though I think clean brass is important, super process shiny clean no.

I resize and clean with the corn cob thing along with additive at times.

I do think a clean case is important so that problems stand out.
 
I use to clean with dry media for 25+ years an it worked just fine , after cleaning with a tumbler wet with SS pins it cleans the brass much better inside & out , may not make your groups tighter I just like my brass as clean as possible.

My friend reloads for a Savage LRP bolt action , I feel he has a tight chamber , in chambers like that your brass should be clean , sized & trimmed properly to be trouble free .
I was surprised to see the measurements so far off . I thought the brass needed a good cleaning . After F/L sizing & trimming , my test with clean brass went out the window .
 
I do think a clean case is important so that problems stand out.
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I agree

One of my issues with wet/pin cleaning is with the inside of the necks getting too clean. Just do a search and you fill find a lot of discussion on that. You can always lube the inside of the necks with talc and graphite lubes. Both are messy at best and results were mixed on the chrono with graphite edging out talc on SD's. Messy though, and I don't like messy

So between the hassle of the wet method and neck tension concerns I went back to walnut. It shines the cases to my expectations and leaves a nice residue of carbon inside the necks which acts as a lube between the case and the bullet. Occasionally I will clean a primer pocket manually if it looks particularly nasty but as a general rule as long as they are tight they are ok with me

Even with that though I am still trying different stuff. Last night I decanted a bit of some dry silicon and painted the inside of some case neck with a Q tip. and loaded them this morning. This is just opinion but the seating felt super smooth. Guess I will find out at the range later this week
 
My clean necks seat very smooth , no need for dry lubes , I do have the dry neck lube that's added to fine beads but I was concerned it would coat the barrel as if I used moly . carbon inside & outside of the case neck seemed to embed in the brass , with a tight chamber without neck turned brass I feel could cause problems . I would of liked to have cleaned his brass an see if his erratic chamber problems went away . Most likely its from case measurements were all over the place. One reason I don't neck size .
 
It looks like you get a better (more even) anneal (induction) with a fully cleaned case.

I am still on the edge, I don't like the burned crud that comes out with anneal either (fans, open doors keeps it down)

Otherwise I am good with the Vibratory Tumbler for cleaning.
 
My clean necks seat very smooth , no need for dry lubes , I do have the dry neck lube that's added to fine beads but I was concerned it would coat the barrel as if I used moly . carbon inside & outside of the case neck seemed to embed in the brass , with a tight chamber without neck turned brass I feel could cause problems . I would of liked to have cleaned his brass an see if his erratic chamber problems went away . Most likely its from case measurements were all over the place. One reason I don't neck size .
 
@cw308 unless you are chasing tenths for bench rest or 300+ yard shooting then no neck lube should be necessary

That being said I have ran SD tests on wet/stainless pin cleaned brass vs tumbled brass it is clear the the necks can get too clean and affect the velocity SD. So far the best neck lube I have found is the Imperial. It works well but you need to clean the outside of the necks after using it and the little beads go everywhere if you are not careful

http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/162-imperial-dry-neck-lube-convenience-pak

Even easier is just stick to dry tumbling if you are loading precision ammo. The residual carbon makes a decent lube all by itself. Yes there will be a difference if the copper of the bullet is rubbing against a perfectly clean piece of brass or on that has microscopic sized pieces of carbon to ride on. Worst case scenario of course is on that has a little of both. Consistency to either extreme is preferable. That is why I am experimenting with neck lubes to have each neck the same "slickness" as the last. The way I see it is that if Froggy uses a neck lube then it sure as heck won't hurt my groups :)

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...eaning-case-neck-friction-and-bullet-seating/

Only cases I wet tumble now is the pistol brass where velocity SD is of little or no cocern

Even with dry tumbing I am always looking to eliminate vertical dispersion so this is what I am going to test when I go to the range

https://tomstek.us/wd-40-specialist-silicone-lubricant-review/

I decanted half an ounce or so into a empty pill bottle then used a q tip with a hair cut to paint the inside of 20 .204 case necks and might do 20 .260 necks if the .204's show any improvement. It might help, might not but I won't know until the holes are in the paper and the chrono results are in. I am optimistic however because if you think your bullets go in easy now, try some with the silicon trick. I could really feel a difference even with the dry tumbled cases with nylon brushed necks
 
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hounddawg
I have the Redding dry lube . My seating is smooth without it , I'm not having a problem ,I shoot 308 bench rest . My friend is having a problem also bench rest 223 , he only neck sizes and the cases looked pretty scroungey.

After cleaning his brass in my wet tumbler the brass looks like new . Wanted to know if just cleaning the brass his problems would go away.
 
@ CW if you are happy with your group sizes then no need to change anything ever. As for myself I'm still trying to get 5 shot groups measuring in the .2's and .3's on a regular basis so I keep trying to improve my techniques on both the reloading and the shooting bench
 
hounddowg
That's good shooting , what caliber & rifle are you using . Were always looking for that one hole 5 shot group . I'm with you , trying everything , that's the fun of reloading . Do you neck size or full ? I went down that road using bushing dies , neck sizing , neck tension .

What works for me is full sizing with the standard RCBS standard die , nothing fancy ,getting .5 at 200 yards with my one an only Rem. 700 308 cal 20" Rock Creek M24 5R barrel.
Been reloading for 30 years . At 70 eyes aren't as sharp , hands aren't as steady , even though its a good time of life .

Love reloading & shooting with my friends , we share reloading ideas , just like this forum , nice group of people to help each other . There's always another tool , powder or bullet to try. I do find using 0000 steel wool wrapped around a pencil tip to smooth out the inside of the case a plus for smooth seating . Again I'm only shooting 30 rounds each week in 11/2 hours . That's what I look forward to each week , nice end of the week.
 
heh CW that is my goal not what I am consistently shooting. In 2017 I have had exactly eight 5 shot groups below .4 out of 187 groups. In 2016 I had 3 out of 237. I can shoot .5's at 100 pretty regular now though so there is hope. Oh and a .204 at 100 and a 260 out to 800
 
hounddawg
204 & 260 are both flat out accurate rounds , I'm seeing a lot of 6.5 Creedmoore on the line , AR's & bolt actions . Very similar to the 260 . The 204 will replace the 22-250 . l only shoot 308 it started out as a Rem 700 LTR , changed the barrel after 4000+ rounds ,then the stock , then the trigger , I don't even know I can call it a Remington anymore .
I shoot 5 shot groups , two years ago I shot 3 shots dead center one hole at 200 yards , didn't shoot the forth or fifth , I knew I would have screwed up the group , saved the target . Eight hundred yards , ranges in my area are max. 200 yards , 800 must be shooting steel . That's a nice day at the range .

Chris
 
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lol any day at the range is a good day. I like to play with Savages, they are the Jeep/Harley of the gun world for DIY easiness. I am considering building a Remage next year maybe in a 6mm flavor of the month. Nothing definite

.204 is a great practice caliber for the larger guns. I shoot it like it is centerfire .22 LR that I can experiment with reloading techniques on. I know that if I am using a go-to load and get a flyer it is because of either my shooting technique or a change at the reloading bench

If you like .308 you would love a .260, rumor on the line is that the Creedmore can be picky about loads, I can't confirm that. However when you get the right combo they are tackdrivers, now that I have seeen myself. My .260 loves the 123 SMKs and 140 SMK's and shoots great with Varget or IMR 4350, whicjh are the only powders I have tried with either bullet. It's very easy to load for, accurate and easy on the recoil.

Back to subject, neither of my guns liked bare brass necks. I confirmed it with groups and chrono data and that is what led me to experimenting with lubes. If yours likes the necks shiny then that's great. No two barrels/guns ever shoot the same
 
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hounddawg
Some bench rest shooter friends do something called soft seating , there using bushing dies keeping the neck tension to .001 so they seat the bullet long an when chambering , the bullet seats itself into the rifling.

That's what got me to try the bushing dies from Redding , I found my runout was high & .002 bullet grip or tension was the same with my old RCBS F/L die , kept my runout at .001
as far as clean necks , I go overboard on perping because I'm only working on 30 rounds . I don't think if I were shooting higher numbers I would spend the time .

I trim every case to 2.010 , smooth the inside of the case necks with 0000 steel wool , uniform primer pockets , debut flash hole & use a #45 drill bit to check flash hole to the same size. I switch off every week on the cases 30 cases of HSM brass , following week ADI brass , both are on the thick side .

I'm using Sierra 168 gr MatchKing over IMR 4064 40.8 gr. seated .002 off the lands . Its on the low side , shoots well , remember 200 yard is maximum for the ranges in my area . would have to be a overnight to shoot 800 yards , even checking your hits you need a truck , I think that's what heaven is like. Anyway , Its been a good talk . Be well

Chris
 
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